The Ego and its role in your life

Every day of our life, we live with the constant barrage of the fear driven Ego.

The crafty voice in our head that is forever fighting for control.

The Ego will always be a player in your life, but it is your choice at how much it can influence your life experience.

Join us today as we discuss the Ego, how it influences your daily life experience and how overcoming it will set you free.

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Andrew Hackett: Good day, and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett, and I'm here to talk to you about everything that the world needs to discuss about living a life free from fears restrictive boundaries so that you can not only live a limitless life, but so that you can become truly illimitable. I am here from sunny Australia, talking with my remarkable cohost, Patricia Morose, who has her own highly successful podcast series delving into the mysteries of the Universe and how we live within it. 

Good day everywhere from sunny Australia. This is Andrew Hackett, and you're listening to Illimitable Living, pure freedom without limits. Today, I'm here once again with the wonderful Patricia Morose. Good day Patricia. How are you doing today? 

Patricia: I am doing wonderful. Thank you Andrew. How about yourself? 

Andrew Hackett: Doing really, really well. You know, it's autumn over here, which means that over where you are it has to be, what, coming into spring now? 

Patricia: It is. We actually had spring equinox a couple of weeks ago, and let me just tell you, after a long, cold winter, because I live in a cold climate, it is wonderful to see the sun again, to see things growing again. Yeah, so I am just happy. The spring always makes me happy. 

Andrew Hackett: I agree. The thing I love about spring is the thing about rebirth, the everything coming back to life again after the cold. There's nothing that's more invigorating in my mind. 

Patricia: Absolutely. I agree with you, yes. 

Andrew Hackett: So, I envy you hitting into spring and summer as well. I'm heading into the depths of winter, although I must admit, where I live our winter isn't really all that bad. We don't do too bad at all. 

Patricia: Oh, I'll have to definitely talk to you about that later, for sure, because I'd love to hear more about your winters. But, I'm sure our listeners probably don't care. 

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure they don't. I'm sure they've got their own winters to deal with. 

Patricia: Exactly. 

Andrew Hackett: So tell me, what are we going to talk about today? What subjects do we want to cover? 

Patricia: Well, I've been thinking a lot lately, and just observing out in the community, how the ego plays a role in our life, because I see it play in many different ways. I see it play in many positive ways. I see it play in many maybe challenging ways, and just my personal opinion is, I don't believe the ego is something to be totally afraid of. And that's what I would love to talk about, is just what the ego is, how it shows up in our life, how it serves us, maybe how it doesn't serve us. 

Andrew Hackett: Great subject. You know, as you probably know, a large bit of my book is written about the ego and how it operates in our life, so it's a favorite subject of mine too. You know, I really appreciate the way you've also mentioned the ego doesn't necessarily have to be something we need to be afraid of, and you know, the ego can actually serve us in certain circumstances. But first of all, I think it's probably fair to kind of describe what the ego is, just for those who may not be aware of it. 

As you know, my book, Free From Fear, talks about the love and fear dichotomy, that everything, every thought, every feeling, every choice we make, is based on one of two things, and that's either love or fear. And I talk about love being everything that empowers us, that creates life, that helps us and makes us feel happy and joyful. And fear is everything that is negative in our life experience, you know, like hate and judgment, racism. So, what I also talk about is love and fear kind of metaphysical things. They're kind of aspects to us that are nonphysical, and so fear needs something to operate in the physical world. And so fear uses the ego. So, I talk about the ego being fear's foot soldier, and that the ego operates within us and operates within our mind in such a clever way. To most of us, actually, we don't really identify with the ego because we are identifying what is the ego as in fact being ourselves as opposed to the soul that we are in the physical body representing. 

But, the ego can certainly have some positives to it as well, and I think the challenge I think for all of us is first of all being able to identify the ego and like anything else in our life, if something's not working for us, if something's not empowering us, if something's not helping us move in a forward, positive, healthy direction in our lives, that's what we need to address. We need to address whatever that is. If there are aspects of the ego that are working for you, and that are empowering you and giving you a bit of strength and stuff like that, I think in certain circumstances it's certainly okay to embrace that, just be very, very careful because the ego is an incredible crafty beast, and when it has a hold of you, in my experience, generally speaking, life doesn't really end up working out too well. 

So, when we think about the ego, I think we need to better understand what is the ego and to me, I try to best describe the ego as being almost like the parrot on the shoulder. You know, it's been a, shall we say, an idea or an image that has been used across modern culture for decades, if not centuries or even millennia. The consciousness on one shoulder telling us everything good, like the little heavenly angel sitting on your shoulder. And the other one's like the little devil sitting on the other shoulder. This whole good versus bad type of argument. I see the ego as being kind of a bit of a nasty parrot that sits on your shoulder and just talks trash in your ear all the time. 

Now, the ego works differently for different people, and it can also work differently between different sexes. The analogy I use for that is often a man and a woman standing in front of the mirror, and we've probably all seen cartoons or visual representations of this. A man and a woman standing in front of a mirror, and the man is in fact in reality an overweight, middle aged, sort of balding, sort of man. But, in the mirror he sees a slim, muscular, broad, strong, quite handsome looking man in the mirror with a full head of hair. You know? Chiseled jaw and the like. And that's the man's ego at play, making us see things, build us up and make us seem more important and more powerful than what we perhaps are in reality. But, the female ego can often be quite the opposite. 

The representation is of a beautiful woman, slim and gorgeous and convacious and bold and brassy and all the wonderful things that women convey. But in the mirror, what she sees is in fact overweight, frumpy, depressed, unhappy, incapable sort of woman. Again, I'm not trying to stereotype. Egos play very, very differently amongst people, but as a general sense, that is what I see the most. 

Now, the interesting thing about the ego is it can change and morph and be whatever it needs to be in any given moment. The ego often has us judging others. It has us judging ourselves. The ego has us thinking that the whole universe in fact revolves around us, and everything everybody else is doing and how they're acting is in fact about us, which again is a falsehood. In my opinion, the ego more often than not only speaks a language of fear, which is not about trust. It's not about honesty. It's not about any of those things. A language of fear is in fact about dishonesty, about untruths, about lies and all the rest of it. But, having said that, sometimes the ego can give us strength when we really need strength. It all depends on how the ego operates within you and ultimately speaking, when we start to analyze the ego, we can start to actually look into how that is for us. 

So, it sort of brings an easy question. How do you see the ego and how do you go places within you Patricia? 

Patricia: Oh wow, I could talk forever on that. So, let me see if I can condense that a little bit because there's so much I could say. It's a topic. The ego is a huge topic. It's very deep too. So, for me, how I've seen the ego play out, not just in my life but at least in my client's life or lives or even in my own friends and acquaintances lives. I'll start with me. I see it more in my aspect identified greatly with what you said, as far as the male and female aspect goes, because it is true. We women tend to see something different than men do when they look in the mirror, generally speaking. I'm not saying that's always the case. But, generally speaking, that's how it is for the most part. I tend to do the same thing myself, so I identified greatly with that and that definitely is ego. 

The ego in that part of it for me is that little parrot over the shoulder, or the little, as you said ... I can't remember exactly as you said it, there's like a little devil on one shoulder and then the little angel on the other. It's definitely the little devil saying, "You know, look at that stomach," or "Look at your thighs. They're not as skinny as they used to be," or whatever may run through your mind when you're looking in the mirror. So, that definitely is part of the ego. The ego also can show up in the way of ... and we all do this, so this isn't so much saying that I only do this or that I'm just only guilty of this. We all do it. We all tend to subconsciously have ego come into play, especially in our relationship with others, and it's like you said Andrew, it really depends on how the ego is used in those relationships too, or at least how it shows up. 

So, for me, I always try to be mindful, I guess you could say, of how it might be showing up in my own life, meaning there are many ways in which if you're not mindful of it that if you're allowing it in ... it's almost how Wayne Dyer used to say ego is like edging God out. I don't resonate so much with the word God these days anymore, but that's just the label we put on it, and whatever you want to call God in your existence, whether it's the universe, that kind of thing, but I'm just going to say God for purposes of this. But, it's like edging God out. 

I believe that if you're letting the ego rule your life and not being mindful of it, because I think that's the key. The ego is always going to be there, but the key is being mindful of it so that you can know and understand how it is showing up in your life, and in ways it may be serving you and ways it may not be serving you. If you can be mindful of those things and understand how that is playing out for you in your life, then you can actually get to a point where you say, "Hey, wait a minute. That's my ego coming into play here. Let me change course. Let me shift my mind into thinking about this a different way," and kicking that ego out. You know? 

Andrew Hackett: Yeah. 

Patricia: And I have found for me, once I have done that, once I have kicked the ego out, then I feel like I'm way more in tune and have more clarity of mind again. I'm able to feel from my heart space again rather than just being strictly in my head. And I think that ego, at least for me, is more of me being in my head. The ego I don't think has a lot to do with the heart. 

Andrew Hackett: I agree. I completely agree with that. In fact, I talk about the fact that the ego lives in the mind. That's where it operates, and because the mind is also part of the physical representation we have, when we die the mind and the ego dies with us, whereas our heart, our soul, our inspiration survives. It lives on for eternity, and ultimately that is what we are. So, our memories, our experiences, our understandings, our knowledge and lots of stuff, stays with the soul. It doesn't stay with the mind. The logical aspect of the mind, which is the physical representation and how we compute things, how we figure things out from a day to day, that is the mind at play there, and the ego lives heavily within that space. 

You know, it's an interesting thing. I often find ... I've got teenage boys in the house, we've got three teenage boys in the house, and I'm starting to watch the ego rise within each of them and you know, it's an interesting thing because it brings me back to my teenage years and how the ego played such a strong role in what was happening for me and even after my sexual abuse event that happened in my mid-teens, the ego then really got a hold of things. But, it was in a different way. It wasn't in the arrogant, young, wild, warrior sense of the ego that happens in our teens, and often extends well into our 20s and usually into our 30s as well. For me, it was more the guilt and the shame and constantly being kept in that downward spiral and kept under control by the ego in a repressive sense that I experienced. 

But, certainly being in a house with three teenage boys, and grew up in a house as one of three teenage boys, and I remember the ego at play and the bantering and the conversation and I always used to say you actually had to physically raise the volume of your voice in your house to be heard. Otherwise, you couldn't, which Michelle came from a very different house, predominantly full of girls in a house that didn't really associate conflict to any benefit at all. And the difference when ... when Michelle and I met, she's very quietly spoken and very still and present, and I am traditionally a little bolder and a little brassier and certainly a lot louder. 

And the way that my ego was beautifully balanced with hers, which is a beautiful thing about our relationship, but as time progressed I started to realize more and more about how the ego played out for me, not just in keeping me in that constant cycle of guilt and shame for some 20-odd years, but also to sometimes make me feel like I was more powerful than others, that I was better than others, that I had more importance than others, that particularly in the first 20-odd years in my career and thinking about it, it was serving very well in regard to making money, my ego was very money hungry and I certainly enjoy the benefits of that now in regard to where I'm at in life, but the problem was is when you are in the state of the ego, and the ego is in control, ultimately speaking it only, in my opinion, wants to disconnect us from those around us. It wants to maintain that self-importance of the singularity. What I mean by the singularity is you may, as a separate person, do everything going on as opposed to the single consciousness, which is where real connection and everything comes, and the ego can't live in that space because that's where love exists. 

Remember, when I talk about the ego being fears foot soldier, which means it can't operate in a space of love. It can't operate in honesty and connection and empowerment, which is an interesting thing. Because, you mentioned earlier, and I actually don't disagree with you at all Patricia. You know, sometimes the ego can be of benefit to us. I just want to explain that, because in my experience, the benefit of that was that I made me hungry. It made me competitive. Now, the problem is, is that then it also made me make some not so good choices. In any type of career sense, I looked out for my own interests before looking out for the interests of others. Now, that was certainly me in my 20s and my 30s, but now me in my mid to late 30s and certainly now well into my 40s, I started to realize that true empowerment, true success comes from empowering others, by helping others, by putting others needs first and helping others grow and develop and lots of stuff. 

But, that's just the space that I'm in at the moment as we start to move into what I call the stewardship sort of cycle of our life. But, ego doesn't have to be a bad thing. I think it's only a bad thing if it's keeping you disconnected, if it's also separating you from everybody else. Because, I think when we start to get a little bit older, we start to realize that the one true thing, the one true thing of who we are, and the one true thing of what we actually really desire in life is genuine, authentic, present connection with others. And of course, the ego doesn't want that because in that state, it makes the ego completely irrelevant. To me, understanding that when we start to explore that love and fear dichotomy, that one builds up, empowers, creates. The other one destroys and controls and dominates. When the ego's playing in that space, and the ego's very clever because the ego can sometimes make us feel good. It can. It can sometimes make us feel good. 

In really deep examination of that, it is often about selfishness or self-importance. The traditional sense of the word ego, you know, arrogance and power and strength. It's an interesting thing because the egos version of power and strength is very different to loves version of power and strength. To love, power and strength is all about helping others. You know, there is more power and strength in giving to someone and lifting someone up, helping someone. In my opinion, there's more power in listening than there is in talking. It's all these things that the ego just can't quite grasp. 

I think the ego wants to be loved. It wants to be nurtured, and it wants to be cared for. You know, it wants to be connected with, but because it's fears foot soldier, because it is focused on that aspect, that is what it's existence is. It kind of just constantly misses the mark, and I think that's why it also wants friends in other people's egos. So, I've used an analogy a few times. Sometimes when someone starts to recognize the ego, starts to do the work, follow the process of offering love to the ego to transcend the ego, and as the individual's ego starts to slip away, what happens is your own ego starts searching for other egos, starts to try to bring out the egos in others, to turn on you, to attack you, to reactivate your own ego, because of course there's nothing that reactivates our ego better than when someone's saying nasty things about us, talking about us behind our back, attacking us, setting us up for failure and all that sort of stuff. 

Now, that is all the power. That's all the ego at play there, and try to make us feel like we're the center of everybody's universe when in fact we're really not. So, it's just an interesting thing that I've noticed, that when one ego starts, particularly in a community, when the ego starts to really take a back stand sometimes those other egos come out and become stronger in the hope of feeling ... they feel that presence, that ego-free presence in their space and they don't like it because they know that it's addictive. They know that it's contagious, and they know that if anybody else feels that connected, beautiful, ego-free presence, that they're going to want some of that and that's going to diminish the egos in others as well. 

It's an incredibly powerful thing. I mean, I don't know Patricia, you're obviously familiar with Eckhardt Tolle's work, I understand. I don't know if you've ever been to one of his events. 

Patricia: No, I would love to. 

Andrew Hackett: Just being, just knowing he's in the building in itself creates this extraordinary space. You know, we've seen this happen amongst spiritual teachers all over the world, where just being in their space and them being in their own beautiful present state, it just flows out. Wayne Dyer was another beautiful example of it. I believe also Tiny Robbins, although Tiny doesn't talk as widely and openly. Tiny's very practical in his teachings, and that's a beautiful thing and I fully respect that because I think we need both spirituality and practicality. 

But, these spiritual teachers like Eckhardt, just being in their space of the presence that they emanate, it is highly contagious and it is such a beautiful space to be in. The egos just can't exist in that space. It just can't. To me, that is the true transcendence of the ego. Eckhardt Tolle is today's modern day equivalent of an egoless being. We've seen that before in ancient times. Gandhi was one more recently. Buddha, another beautiful example. Jesus was another example as well, and I'm sure that there are many others. But, it's just a really beautiful example. 

Now, the interesting thing is that we don't have to be like Buddha. We don't have to be like Eckhardt to know, acknowledge, and work on transcending our ego. I think it's probably fair to say that those representations are in fact actually the destination, the endpoint, the point before, during and perhaps well on the way to if not having reached that state of enlightenment, which is true ego-free presence. 

Patricia: Wow. I want to ask you, I actually just had a light bulb moment, and I think maybe some of our listeners have too because I never thought of it in the way that you presented it as far as when we have worked on transcending our ego, all of a sudden the egos can come out in other people. I have never thought of it that way. In fact, I wanted to ask you, because I know there might be listeners out there who want to know a little bit more about that. Can you give like an example of that? Because, I would love to hear how that comes about a bit more because it's a new concept and it resonates and I would just love to hear more about that, because then I can go, "Aha, now this is how it's been going on in my life too." You know? And I think our listeners had those Aha moments as well. 

Andrew Hackett: Sure, sure. All right, I'll give you a couple of quick examples. So, one is the old burning of the witches in the old days. The Catholic church came out and renounced anything that was even remotely Paganistic as witchcraft, and they made these bold statements that if you're not with us, you're against us, effectively. Now, ultimately ... and I'm not saying Paganists or people that practice in alternative spiritual beliefs are in fact more enlightened than anybody else. I'm not saying that at all. It's just an example where an organization in this particular case, made a decision that those behaviors, those choices that those people were making, were in fact wrong. You know, it's like the old analogy, the villagers are going and they grab their pitchforks and they go and grab their torches, and off they go to burn the witch. 

I've seen it myself. I've once lived in a small town and in that small town, it's an interesting thing. You can't get on with everybody at all, and even if you're ... particularly if also trying to implement change into a small town, just by doing what you're doing and creating a change in the space that you're in, some people just don't want change to happen. Some people don't want things to happen. It was an interesting thing, as I became more and more out of my ego, I started to recognize it all and started to step out of it more and more and stay present more and more and practice my presence. I noticed that the egos in those around me came out stronger and stronger and stronger, until quite literally I was both mentally and physically attacked, both by individuals and by groups of people, which in itself it was a funny aspect. Because, being present enabled me to see what was happening and why it was happening, and realizing it wasn't about me at all, that their actions, their behaviors, their choices, their ego, was in fact a reflection of themselves and their own anger and things that they were unhappy about in their own life. 

They were just using me as an excuse to have a go. Fortunately for me, in a lot of those circumstances, I was able to actually maintain my presence long enough to stay present, even in the occasion, which dispels it as well. Even though they're angry, even though they're attacking you and going purple in the face with their rage, even with physical violence, by staying present and not reacting and physically offering love, it literally dispels it very, very rapidly because the ego doesn't know how to operate in that space. It can't operate in the presence of love. 

I was so thankful for those occasions to be able to practice what I preached. It was in the early days, you know, I don't attract any of that into my life anymore and I'm very lucky for that. But, back then I did and as it turned out, it was a really good example for me to practice that. You know, I'm going to go out on a limb here, and I don't actually ever talk about politics because it's not savvy. 

Patricia: Yes. 

Andrew Hackett: It can be a career ending move. 

Patricia: Oh, for sure. 

Andrew Hackett: But, I'm going to go out on a bit of a limb here and for those who are listening, I'm an Australian. You know, I'm not in any way invested in American politics at all, but I see such a remarkable example of the ego in America's current president. 

Patricia: Oh, don't even get me started on that, and I'm American. 

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. 

Patricia: No, I'm just saying that I get where you're coming on that one. 

Andrew Hackett: Of course, of course. And I'm not Republican. I'm not Democrat. I'm none of that. 

Patricia: Neither am I. 

Andrew Hackett: I'm not even in the country. But, it's just ... it is such a beautiful example of both the ego coming out and those egos of his supporters and stuff defending him and other people. And look, the Democrats have got their egos coming out as well because there are some things that Trump is doing that some determine as being successful in doing what he said he came in to do. So, it's just a very interesting thing, the way the ego works on both sides of the political sky, and both sides of the political sky, both of them, the Republicans, Trump and his followers, they believe genuinely that their viewpoint and their belief system and everything like that is the right one. They genuinely believe that. 

In the same way the Democrats, and I'm not even too sure who the opposition leader was. I know it was Hillary Clinton at the time, they genuinely believe in what she was doing was right as well. When both sides ... I think we've got enough evidence to suggest now that both sides weren't doing the right thing. Neither of them were. But, still the egos involved take charge and they grab their pitchforks and they grab their torches and they run off to burn the witch. To me, I find it a fascinating case study, and I watch it very, very closely because I'm not looking at it for the political side of things. I don't even begin to understand America's political system. I struggle to perhaps understand our own in Australia, which is based on the British Westminster system. But, it's more about watching the egos at play and seeing the damage as well that the egos can do when we're constantly on the attack, when we're constantly defending against attack. 

You know, to me it's so destructive, both politically, both in a society's sense, also in a community sense, also at an individual level and even at a family level. The example that is being led by our leaders that you constantly have to attack and you constantly have to disagree. And even if the other side actually puts forward something that is really good and worth listening to and lots of stuff, they denounce it anyway because the opposition has put it out. I mean, that's not leadership. That's not leadership at all. That's just -

Patricia: That's just ego. 

Andrew Hackett: That's right, ego driven madness through and through. I find it fascinating. It's a beautiful case study, and in some aspects I hope it continues because I really want to see the way it all plays out. But, in other circumstances, I know that America, the people in America, the world, we just want it all to stop and I'm not talking about Trump. I'm talking about both parties. They both need to take a big deep breath, come back to their own presence, and start to think about why they're there. They're elected to look after the people. They're elected to make decisions that are right for humanity and I'll let everybody make up their own opinions on what that means. 

But, ultimately speaking, they're there to protect people, to look after people, to grow the economy, to make life abundant for all, and I believe it can be made abundant for all. Absolutely. 

Patricia: Yeah, I have to say though that as an American, I don't even understand the American politics. So, I can't understand how anybody outside of the USA would even begin to understand it if I can't, and I live here. 

Andrew Hackett: That's great. I don't feel so bad now. 

Patricia: No, no. 

Andrew Hackett: I always thought of myself as being a bit of an intelligent guy, but I just can't even begin to understand American politics. 

Patricia: Oh, it is so broken. 

Andrew Hackett: It's very second nature. 

Patricia: It's so broken. Yeah, but that's a topic for a different day on that one. 

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. And look, from what I can tell, there are some candidates coming up for this next election that I personally believe have the best interest of others in mind rather than their own personal agenda. I'm really hoping that a certain ... people can actually see this and feel this, and I do hope that they give him a run in some capacity to try and make a bit of a difference. Obviously, only one of them can become president, but I think the world is ready for a true heart driven leader, similar to what we've seen out of the New Zealand Prime Minister recently with the attacks on the mosque and everything that has happened there, which was also done by an Australian terrorist, and her response to that and inclusion and compassion of that is being hailed all across the world as being what I also refer to as true leadership. And I really admire and honor her for that too. 

Patricia: Yeah, and even the current Pope I have seen has been much different than the Popes of the past. He seems to be more inclusive and more coming from the heart than how it's been in the past. So, I think you're right. It is starting to change in that direction. I mean, there's still a lot of work obviously that needs to be done in that direction, but you're right. We are heading into that direction. I think that old system is crumbling because the American people, I can just speak from my own experience here, are tired of it. We are tired of a constant bickering on both sides. We are tired of nothing getting done because of the bickering on both sides. So, it is changing in that regard because I think one of two things are going to have to happen. 

We're going to have to elect people in office who are coming from the heart, or we're going to have to have some kind of a revolution to make sure that whoever is in office will actually listen to us instead of their own egos and their own agendas and not what they came there to do, is serve the people. But, yeah, that's a big, deep topic, for sure. 

Andrew Hackett: I completely agree. Absolutely. You know, and look, we're not just seeing this in American politics. We're actually seeing it all over the world. The Arab spring, we're now starting to see it in Australia. People are sick and tired of our leaders focusing on their own self-interest. We all desire leaders that focus on the greater good, on humanity as a whole, on what we can do for others. And I do believe it's a very genuine movement. I do believe the world is actually waking up to all of this and we're seeing it through Europe as well and a whole range of other countries. 

I personally think it's part of humanity's wakening and unfortunately I know it's going to take us a long time, and I think it'll take us at least probably another 1000 years to get to a pure, true sense of where we need to be. You know, personally, I'm really looking forward to that time because I think when that time happens and peace reigns true, genuine peace reigns at an individual as well as a collective level, I think humanity's really going to come into our own and really start to see the absolute potential that we are capable of. 

Patricia: Absolutely. I agree. I want to ask you something though. You mentioned earlier how the ego can be a crafty beast, and I agree with you because it can be. Because it can be a crafty beast, it can show up in ways that are hard to recognize at times. What would you say to the listeners who would like to know how they can identify when their ego is coming forward rather than it coming from a place from the heart?

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, okay. So, this is a fabulous question. I'm really glad you asked it. So, the ego in itself, again, it's fears foot soldier, and I talk about the ego or love. It's a love or fear. It's all about how it feels. Now, I actually think women are a little bit more in tune to their gut instinct and they're intuition. I think it's just part of their natural birth right that they have. But, ultimately what I say is you need to pay really close attention to how you feel when you're having certain thoughts and feelings. 

So for instance, when the ego is at play, and the ego's in control, usually we experience a bit of a state of unease. We're not sure or things don't feel quite right. We might have a bit of a knot in our tummy. We might also feel sad, depressed, anxious, fearful, a whole range of different things. The reason why I say that, because if you are present and you are connected to your intuition, you feel this gentle sense of almost bliss, this peaceful harmony, this ... like you've arrived, and everything's okay. You just came home after a big, long holiday and it's winter, but the house is kind of a little bit warm. You know your bed sheets are clean because you put them on there before you left and it's this place where you belong. 

That's what love, that's what the intuition feels like. The reason being, because it's coming from a place that is only made of the purest of love, complete unconditional love. Now, the ego though, it's fear driven. It wants to dominate. It wants to control. It wants to maintain that control, and if it's starting to become irrelevant because you're sitting in a present state of love, it then starts to rally others to try and turn against you so you can fight back and again, you can get control of you again. 

So, it's all about how it feels. So, I talk to people, and different people ... the big question I often get is how can I tell the difference between my ego telling me something through my mind, or my intuition telling me something through my heart? Because, we hear both of them in our head because we're taught that's where our voice is. We're taught that's where our thoughts are, that they all come in our brain, although metaphysically speaking we actually feel it in every cell of our body. Our cells in our body react to the energies that come from different things, and the energies we feel from the ego and from our intuition are exactly the same. It's felt in every cell in our body. 

I've heard too many examples of women, for instance, too many examples of women who have been out and about, on their own or doing something, and suddenly they get these intuitive message that, "All right, you need to get up now. You need to get moving. There's danger coming." And it's usually done by a very quiet, loving, calm, peaceful kind of whisper. And so they do. They kind of get up and they get moving and stuff like that, and they've realized a little bit after, in hindsight, they've realized that in fact they've just avoided being attacked or raped or drugged or something like that. And it's just a really beautiful example because I say to them, "How did it feel? How did that message feel?" And she said, "Oh, you know, it was really peaceful," or "It was really caring." Another lady mentioned, "It felt like my grandmother was talking me, really in a gentle way."

If we then use the comparison, how many times do we get caught up in our head? We have a narrative or a story going on in our head that we're getting carried away from and it's, "Oh, that person's out to get me," or "that person in the traffic is deliberately trying to slow me down and be an asshole." We sit here and it feels awful, doesn't it? You know, it's like we think we have these negative thoughts, like our partner might be running off with someone else and lots of stuff. How does that feel? That's the ego at play, because it feels like a knot in the stomach. It feels uncomfortable. It feels almost acidic in the body, and that's the real difference. That's how we tell the difference between the ego and our intuition at play. Our ego feels off. It just doesn't feel right. 

Patricia: Yes, because I love that you said that because I think, and even I tend to do this, I think we all do it, is that sometimes we do believe we're coming from a place of love, but it really is the ego coming through because the ego can kind of masquerade as love. I love that you -

Andrew Hackett: Very cleverly, yes. 

Patricia: Yes, very cleverly. And I'm glad that you mentioned that, how it makes you feel, because when it is masquerading as love, it doesn't show up that way. It doesn't show up as that warm feeling from like your grandmother telling you something, or how you so beautifully put it, it just feels like a warmth of coming home. So, I love that you said that because it is true. It can masquerade as love, and so many people mistakenly believe sometimes that they're coming from a place of love, but it's really coming from a place of ego. 

Andrew Hackett: Yeah. And look, it takes time. I have a bit of a mantra where I recognize the ego and I say, "Hello ego. I recognize your presence. I'm not after your lies and deceit today, but I offer you love." And the reason why I do that is one, because I know the ego can't exist in the presence of love. And two, the ego just wants to be loved as well. I'm not saying engage with the ego. I'm not saying embrace the ego. I'm just saying recognize it, offer it love, and let it be on its way because ultimately speaking, I believe that's what we're all here to do in one form or another. 

We're here to understand the spiritual and the physical, understand the spiritual and the practical, understand spirituality and how we're supposed to live in this world, and I think in some aspects a lot of this is about understanding the ego, and it takes practice. Sometimes I've used my mantra over and over and over again, what feels like literally thousands of times a day for months, because the ego is relentless. It is constantly wanting to come back and take control of us, and just every time you recognize it and you offer it love and you send it on its way, it gets weaker and weaker and weaker, until it gets to a point eventually where it just doesn't appear. It only comes up in very, very rare circumstances, and because you then, by that stage you've maintained a state of beautiful, loving presence for so long, as soon as it pops its head up, it literally is like a red rag to a bull. You see it straight away and your body just naturally reacts to it in a loving way as well, which then makes it disappear again very, very quickly. 

I say to people, being in a state free from fear, or being fearless, is not about fear never popping up in your life, because that's what physical world life is about. That's what we came her to experience. We came here, reincarnated into this body, to experience love and fear because we can't experience both in our nonphysical state. However, what we can do is we can learn a process, practice that process, commit to that process well enough, regularly enough, and for long enough that we get to a stage where the body naturally reacts at an intuitive, unconscious, competence level of when fear pops up it just deals with it as it pops up. So, we don't actually experience the fear anymore. The fear doesn't have an opportunity to get a hold of us, doesn't have an opportunity for the ego to jump in and get the narrative going and get the story going and get us grabbing us our pitchforks and our torches to go and judge people and make their lives worse.

And I think that is ultimately what it's all about. It's about trying to maintain a state of loving presence often enough and consistently enough that we eventually get to a point where the ego just sort of says, "You know what? I'm not going to bother anymore. I'm just going to let you go about ... you've kind of won the battle there." And when you're in that state, not only does beautiful joy, peace, happiness just exist for prolonged periods of time, if not indefinitely, your connection to others, your role in the universe, what you came here to do, the universe helps you make it an ongoing concern. All these sorts of things just materialize and it's a beautiful state to be in. It really is truly remarkable. I wish I could maintain that state myself forever and a day, but I'm still working on it. 

Patricia: Yeah, exactly. We all are, and I think this is just a lifelong thing. As long as we are in this human existence, like you said, it is something that we came here to experience, and this is something that my opinion is that we agreed to before we came here, and so we can't get rid of something that we agreed to have, if that makes sense. Because, we did come here to experience that. 

I wanted to just thank you though, for clarifying earlier because I had often wondered, and I'm sure our listeners have often wondered, when we are working on our ego, or at least trying to recognize and be mindful of how it shows up in our lives, it is true, it does seem like as soon as you get to that point it starts triggering things in other people, and I never realized that until you said that, why that is. I never understood why that was, that literally was just their egos coming out to challenge yours. 

Andrew Hackett: Yes, that's right. 

Patricia: Yes, so thank you. 

Andrew Hackett: The ego loves company. The ego loves company. 

Patricia: It does. The ego loves company, and I think also when you're used ... let's say, before you were mindful of your ego, we would also react, react, react, right? Kind of like what we've been talking about. When we're not doing that anymore, and when we see people we haven't seen in a long time and they're not getting the same old reactions out of us that they used to, that can trigger their ego too, and that's why I had always wondered. And I always try to maintain my state of presence and being and all those things when that would happen, but I did always wonder why it would happen, and it makes perfect sense. So, I'm so glad that you talked about that today because I think a lot of our listeners didn't realize that fact as well. 

Andrew Hackett: Wonderful. I'm glad you liked it. Look, I agree. This stuff is important stuff, and we need to better understand it, in my opinion. Because to me, that's where the path to true happiness, that's where the path to true freedom comes. And I know it sounds like a little bit of a cliché, but it really is very, very true and not only for me in my life, but even the people that I work with. When we work through all of these matters and we give it the consistent application, the results are undeniable. They really are. So thank you, really. 

What a great subject. I really enjoyed talking about that with you today. Thank you Patricia. 

Patricia: Thank you. It was a pleasure talking to you and having our listeners have some insights as well, I hope. 

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Look, thank you everyone for listening. It's been a great week. I really want you to tune in next week. Please, don't forget to subscribe to the podcast channel and everything like that, so that you can get your notifications happening every time we release one. We try to release one every week. And also, if you want to connect with me, you can connect with me on Facebook. If you just do a search, Andrew Hackett Australia on Facebook, you can find my Facebook page where there's daily inspirations, and that's where I put all my special deals and my ideas and everything out there for the world, for us all, to discuss. Because ultimately speaking, what I'm wanting is I'm wanting a discussion about all these different topics that we cover so that we can truly come together as one and start to change the world for a better place. Have a great day. Thanks again Patricia. 

Patricia: Thank you. 

Andrew Hackett: Have an awesome week. We'll speak to you next week. 

Patricia: Bye-bye.