You cannot change anything with the same energy that created it

Everything is made up of energy. We consume it, and we project it.

Working with energy is slowly becoming the key ingredient towards creating a successful and happier life experience.

Mastering your energy and the interpretation of the energies around you, is the fastest path towards becoming truly illimitable.

Download Transcript Download mp3

Get Notified of Future Episodes


The Fearless Personality Test

Start your journey from
Fear to Freedom

Take the Fearless Personality Test to get personalised feedback from Andrew on your Journey from Fear to Freedom.

Start My Journey


Andrew: Good day. Welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett and I'm here to talk to you about everything that the world needs to discuss about living a life free from fear's restricted boundaries so that you can not only live a limitless life, but so that you can become truly illimitable. I am here from sunny Australia talking with my remarkable co-host, Patricia Morris, who has her own highly successful podcast series delving into the mysteries of the universe and how we live within it.

Good day everybody and welcome to the Illimitable Living. This podcast is all about getting you to change your perspective so that you can start living a limitless life. I'm here with Patricia Morris, a remarkable lady who adds so much value to these podcasts as well. Good day, Patricia. How are you doing this week?

Patricia: I'm doing great, thank you and thank you so much for those kind words. That always warms my heart. Thank you.

Andrew: They're definitely well earned. It's a real honor for me to have you here and the reason why I wanted you to be a part of this project that we're working on. Essentially I'm trying to get the word out with slightly different perspectives. And that's part of the joy of what we're trying to do as well. So thank you very much for that.

Patricia: Well, thank you. Thank you. My pleasure.

Andrew: So today. What's the subject of choice for today?

Patricia: Well, I have been thinking a lot lately about the energy of when we're trying to fix something in life. And oftentimes we approach that with the same energy that created it. So, oh, this is going to be an awesome podcast because there are so many examples that we can give that would help people understand this at a deeper level. Because oftentimes we don't even realize sometimes that we're putting that same energy into something that created it. So this episode's actually about helping everybody to identify in their minds ways in which they may be doing that so that they can become more conscious of it. So yeah, I think this is going to be a great topic of discussion for sure.

Andrew: Fabulous. So I think Einstein was attributed with the quote, "You cannot fix something with the same energy that created it." Now, I'm not entirely too sure whether he did say that. He was a bright guy as we all know. He also gets attributed with a lot of quotes that it has since been proven he didn't say.

But either way it doesn't make it any less the truth. From what I understand, it's actually a philosophy that came from ancient times. That associated with when we're trying to deal with conflict in our life, there's no point approaching an angry situation or a fear based situation with more fear. There's no point approaching someone who's angry or trying to provoke anger by giving it to anger because ultimately what it does, whatever energy you add to it, makes that energy stronger.

So if it's a fear based energy and you add fear to it, it makes fear stronger and more powerful. Same with anger, same with hate, same with racism, same with judgment in all of this stuff. If you approach someone who's being judgmental by offering judgment, by being judgmental back, that judgment energy is going to get stronger.

However, if you find a love based situation and someone is offering love and you offer love to that, we all know how that feels. The love gets stronger as well. You know, it's not necessarily about negative energy and adding negative energy. It's any energy. Whatever energy creates something. If you add more of that to it, it will get stronger. Now, we obviously would probably all agree that if we have a choice to make any energy, making a love-based energy would be a better energy.

It'd feel better. It'd create a better result or a better outcome. So adding more love to it, more energy of the same, will create a stronger, better outcome.

But if you've got a problem, and this is where this quote is all about, you cannot fix the problem with the same energy that created it. If you've got a problem and that problem has been created from fear, created from judgment, and then you offer the same energy to it, you're not going to fix the problem. In fact you're going to make the problem worse.

And this is where I never really understood the whole war aspect. You know, particularly preemptive strikes. I understand why people talk about the benefit of preemptive strikes, although I don't understand or begin to understand war in any fashion, because I figure if we strike first thin that'll send a message.

Ultimately speaking, it's like this whole terrorism aspect. American apparently was attacked in the 9/11 bombings. The World Trade Center and everything like that. And I'm not saying that someone doesn't need to defend themselves, I'm not saying that at all. But going and attacking Iraq, going and attacking Afghanistan as a political choice. I haven't got a problem with people who are in the forces. I think the people that are in the forces are in the forces of the right reason, 'cause they actually do want to change the world. And I honor and completely respect the sacrifice that they make. Because they make their sacrifice, I don't have to do that myself and put myself in harm's way or put my family in harm's way and I am eternally grateful. And I say that also about emergency services workers, police, ambulance people, firemen and lots of stuff. They do what they do to protect the rest of us from having to do it.

But if one country attacks a country in any shape or form, and then the second country who was attacked just immediately retaliates with the same type of energy, of course it's going to explode. It's going to make the energy multiplied and attack them even more. Make it scarier, more angrier and all the rest of it.

This premise, this theory, this idea, this, in my opinion, fact, has been played out many times in modern culture. There was a Transformers movie where there was this big bad transformer and the more they attacked the transformer, the stronger and bigger and more powerful it became. This to me was a beautiful analogy. Ultimately speaking, we see it every single day of people, they go out drinking at a pub, for instance, and someone says a harsh word to someone else and suddenly someone lashes back and you end up in this big pub brawl thing and nobody ever really wins in that situation.

Whereas, I've even put myself in a situation where I've seen two people physically fighting and I literally have stepped in between them and I started singing a song. And not only did I think you're kind of crazy, because don't get me wrong, it's a pretty crazy sort of thing to do, you've got to be nuts to actually attempt it.

Patricia: That's why I'm giggling.

Andrew: That's right. That's exactly right. What actually happened is because I was offering love because my actions, my thoughts, my feelings were all about love, not about retaliation. It was all about defusing things without laying my hands on anybody. Both of them ended up by getting very confused. Thinking, what the hell is going on? Why is this guy getting in the way? It distracted them from what they were doing. It diffused their own anger.

And in fact, believe it or not, this might surprise you, they then even kind of joined forces to try and figure out who this strange wee guy was standing in the way singing the song. They'd completely forgotten what they were fighting about, which was absolutely hilarious. And even my friends that I was with that night, not only did they think I was completely nuts, they were completely amazed at what happened 'cause they felt that change in energy as well. And in fact, believe it or not, in a very Australian way, and I'm sure this happens in other countries 'cause us men, we're neanderthals at best, those two particular gentlemen that were physically fighting, that were having a punch up, they ended up by going back to the bar and having another drink together.

Patricia: Wow.

Andrew: So go figure out. Go figure. I can't claim complete influence on all of that. But perhaps the coincidence was there and it was a little too obvious. But that was just one quick example. Patricia, I'm sure you've got a fabulous example too of where if something happens and we add the same energy to it, it makes it bigger. And is that something that has happened is something that's very negative, like anger or fear or guilt or aggression or violence, adding more of that only makes the matter worse.

Patricia: Yes. And while you were talking about that a situation was replaying in my mind that happened last year on that same topic of the energy that you put into things.

So I went through massage therapy school and I'm now a licensed massage therapist. But while was in massage therapy school, we had some recruiters come out and advertise about their business. And in this particular business, the two women that came in said that they were not going to hire any men. And she said, "We're only here to hire women." And in the massage therapy business, unfortunately the issue is that the females get more of the business than the men do. There are many reasons why that, and that's a whole other podcast episode, but the reality is that male massage therapists don't get as much business as the women do.

And so these women who were recruiting their business were basically saying to the men in the room, "You guys don't matter. This is all about the women." And so one of the guys kind of raised his hand and he said, "Well, I have a problem with that because we're going through school. Shouldn't we have just as much of an opportunity as the women do to have the same position?" And she turned to him and said, "Well, now you know what we women have gone through all these years."

Andrew: Oh, all right, yep.

Patricia: And that was when my jaw dropped and I was like, "Are you kidding me? Did she just say what I thought she said?" Because don't get me wrong, I am a feminist. I am all about women's rights, about women having the right to vote, own land, be on an equal opportunity as men.

But what came to my mind is obviously this woman had a lot of pain in her life. For whatever reason, she probably had been hurt by men and so that's why she's antagonistic towards men. She was definitely very antagonistic towards men during that whole recruiting conversation. There was more to it. But that's just it in a nutshell.

And I thought, you know, obviously she is very feminist and is very anti patriarchy, which there is nothing wrong with that. But what stuck out stood out in my mind is she was kind of creating that same energy that started patriarchy in the very beginning, of devaluing another human being. It doesn't matter what sex they are, but in this case, it was males or men. She was thinking that she could devalue men in order to make women more powerful.

And isn't that just what men used to do? Would do value women to try to make themselves more powerful? You cannot fix something with the same energy that created it. So that's what that story was.

Andrew: I completely agree.

Patricia: Yeah, that's what that story was. So for me it was like, I am all for feminism. I am. But you can't approach it from the angle of devaluing somebody else or devaluing men in order to fix something with the same energy that created it. It's never going to happen. Never.

Andrew: I completely agree. And look, I think enough evidence to now quite clearly say that the patriarchal model that we are experiencing in this version of civilization just isn't working. There's too much war, there's too much corruption, there's too much arrogant ego going on. And previous instances of a matriarchal societies within different human civilizations, they got to the point that they got to quicker and faster and more advanced than what we got to. And there's definitely enough evidence of that about.

The interesting thing is what you described to me is very much like the whole reverse racism model or reverse discrimination model. They figure that if they discriminate against the party that's usually the discriminator, that then in fact it kind of reverses the energy on it. In the same way that they might, whites had suppressed the rights of blacks and and men had suppressed the rights of women for forever really, until quite recently. In the last 30 40 50 years or thereabouts.

But racism is racism. Discrimination is discrimination. Whether it's reversed or otherwise. It's still the same energy that was what the problem was in the first place. And look, I love the fact that women are speaking up. I love this Me Too movement. It's about time that women found the power to speak up against the male predation and the discrimination and the misogyny. I've always been appalled by all of that. It's never ever sat right for me. But discriminating against men as well, in my opinion, is not part of the process because it's the same energy.

Look, I agree that in some certain circumstances women only health clubs, for instance, is a healthy approach. Because women need to feel that they've got an environment where they can just relax and be themselves. On the same token as well, women can also be just judgemental if not their own worst enemy sometimes. Women tend to judge women as well.

In the same way that I think in some certain circumstances there is a benefit for men to have their men's only place. Like men sheds and things like that. Where men can just be men without having to guard themselves like they feel like they need to nowadays in a lot of circumstances, in the presence of women.

I'm not talking about social or sexual segregation or anything like that at all. I'm just saying that I think in some circumstances, I think there can be a justified beneficial model. But then we get into that tricky space of reverse discrimination or actual discrimination, however you want to look at it.

This Me Too movement, I think, is a great thing. Because what it is doing is ultimately showing men that if you are going to be the predator, if you are going to be, in my opinion a complete twit, a fool, you deserve to be called on it. You really do. Any men that use position of power to sexually abuse or take advantage of women or children, anyone like that, you deserve to be called on your behavior. Because to me, in my opinion, there is no excuse.

But the other thing I like about it is is it's giving women the voice that they so much deserve as well. A voice that has been suppressed for far too long and if men, in all honesty, is they've got a real problem with that, I think they probably need to just grow up a little bit and just let it all play out. Let it all happen. Let it all take the path that and needs to take because there's every possibility, in every way, shape or form that in fact if they actually do a lot of good for humanity.

Patricia: Yes. I don't know if that was a big thing in Australia, like it was here in the United States. Let me know Andrew if it was. But as you were speaking, the latest scandal was ... Oh what was it a couple of months ago now. That Gillette commercial. Did you hear about that at all?

Andrew: I heard very briefly about that. I'm not too sure. It probably wasn't as big here as it was in the states. Tell me about all of that again if you don't mind.

Patricia: Yeah, so Gillette in the United States, and again I'm pretty sure uneducated if they have an international presence or not. But they make razorblades and things like that to shave. Women use their razorblades to do their shaving. Men Use their razorblades to do their shaving.

So the whole commercial was about men. So for instance, there would be an incredibly attractive woman walking down the street and then one man would just step in her path and ogle her and just make her feel really dirty and disgusting. And then another man would step in and say, "Hey, that's not cool, man." Don't do that.

And so the whole commercial is just based upon helping men understand ways in which they are contributing to that. And there was a huge uproar. Why? I don't know. I think, well no, I do know, I should say. I think some men, for whatever reason, think that that's just what being a man is all about.

You devalue people. I don't know. I'm just guessing because I'm not a man obviously. But that's the hate and vitriol that I was seeing on social media regarding that. That men didn't want to be called or at least be shown by other men ways in which they may need to improve or need to check themselves and their behavior. And so my point in all of that is sometimes you will find opposition when you do stand up for what's right. When do try to, at least when you're trying to fix something with a different energy, you're going to always have some kind of opposition. So that was another angle that I wanted to put out there regarding that, is that there will be opposition because some people just don't want to change. That's just the way it is.

Andrew: Absolutely. And look, a lot of this comes down to we are ultimately in an unconscious sense, products of our environment. The way we were raised, the belief systems that were created from that create our rules, those rules create our behaviors. And if we were raised in the environment where objectifying women was an acceptable thing to do, of course we are going to grow up objectifying women.

The interesting thing, though, is even about that example is that, yes, that man was objectifying that woman and the other man stepped in to rebalance the occasion by saying, "Look mate. We don't do that anymore." I find myself all the time, in as gentle a way as I possibly can, because I don't want to be judgmental about it. But sometimes something needs to be said when people are using outdated terms for things that just aren't said anymore. Particularly when you're referring to different races or people of different color or people of different ethnic backgrounds. And people use terms that were perhaps more widely used in the in the '70s and the '80s but we just don't use them anymore.

But what we need to be careful of is in that particular circumstance, I would see the man objectifying the woman is in fact a case of judgment. He's judging the woman. And of course the woman's natural reaction to that judgment would be to judge as well and to feel uncomfortable and a whole range of things. And I'm not saying she shouldn't feel that way because what's happening is not right.

But even the act of the other man jumping in is an act of judgment as well. And this is an interesting thing. I talk about this at the back end of my book, Free From Fear, where if we are going to try and change the world, we need to be careful how we're evangelizing. Evangelizing, in my personal opinion, is an act of judgment. Because it is saying to someone, "The way you all live in your life isn't good enough and this is the way you should live your life."

And I think the big problem with that is ... It's like me and what I do. I have to be very careful that I'm not evangelizing what I'm saying because I don't have any right to tell someone else how to live their life. I've got no right at all. They've got every right to believe, to act, to feel, to ... you know, however they choose. That's their right. And for me to turn around and say, "You're doing it the wrong way." Or, "What you're doing is wrong." Is an act of judgment. And it's a fear based energy that I'm adding into that space. The way I choose to approach it is to take a more love-based approach and say, "Look. I'm not here to tell you how to live your life or to tell you what you're doing is right or wrong. All I'm saying is by looking at things through a slightly different perspective, maybe you can find a different truth within yourself."

And that's up to you. You take it, you live with it, run with it, whatever you want to do. All I'm offering is a different perspective. And you're right. Men, as a general rule, we are the neanderthals at best. We don't mind being told. We don't like being told by anybody. Partly that's because, as a general rule, I think it's part of our chemical makeup, that we are right all the time, or we believe we are. Rightly or wrongly, it doesn't really matter.

But ultimately speaking, anybody telling us is going to meet with a, a bit of a confrontational result. Whether that's a woman or whether that's a man. Look, there's still going to be a consequence. Like every choice has a consequence. We can't avoid it. It's a universal law. But I think a man jumping in and saying something like that is only raising the opportunity of conflict.

Now if one of those parties has conscious awareness within them, if they've been very, very present, the introduction of love into that action, into that space, will in fact help dispel any fear based construct in any way.

So you know, for women, and it's easy for me to say coming from a man's point of view, so please just stay with me for a minute. For women that are sick of misogynistic men, of being judged and all this sort of stuff, I believe what they need to do is they need to offer love and compassion towards them. Not their own set of judgments to it. What is happening is happening. Adding judgment to an act of judgment, adding a judgment to misogynism, you're still adding a fee based contract to a fear based construct that's happening in the first instance. What's going to happen is fear based contract is going to only come from that. But if someone is being misogynistic or judgmental or just a complete idiot ...

I'm trying to use terms that are a little bit more family friendly here. So please stay with me.

Patricia: That's funny. I can hear in my mind what words you wanted to use.

Andrew: Yeah, I'm sure you could. I'm sure every listener can as well. I'm sure they're very clear. Us Australians, we're not known for our elegance at all. For the women that are experiencing that, choosing love in all instances I think is really important for two reasons. One, I believe that women, as part of their natural born energy, it's part of their right to give birth, it's part of the connection that they inherently have with what's happening. The gifts that they have available to them and all of those around them, they have an opportunity to offer love into a situation that is more grounded, is more connected, is more present.

I believe it's just naturally inherent in all women. It's something I think in some aspects men need to learn because we get caught up in this macho masculine indoctrination into a society that says we need to be a certain way. And if we're not that certain way and if we are choosing to embrace a little bit more of our feminine side, we're often judged on that as well as not being masculine enough. But I think had a lot of aspects, women have an ability to correct the situation and I believe that ability is stronger, more prominent, and quicker to the resolution if they offer a love-based construct into the mix. And I believe that the strongest of love-based constructs, in itself, is compassion. I have a post that floats around the Facebook world and it's been shared a few thousand times by now and it's a very, very simple post.

And ultimately it says that everybody has a battle going on in their life and that battle is ultimately with themselves. And what we need to do is we need to offer compassion to what we don't understand and not judgment. And it's just a very simple post. It's just a few pretty pictures with those words on it. But people are really connecting with it and reacting to it in such a beautiful way and sharing it, again many, many thousand times. Which, for my level of followers and all the rest of it, that's a lot. That's a really big deal for where I'm at on my social media presence.

But what it does is it says to me that people inherently believe that to be their own truths. They connect with it as their own truth as well. And in a lot of aspects, it is in itself a beautiful message.

And I think that in this situation, particularly in the Me Too Movement, lots of stuff, I think women have to speak up. Absolutely. I think they need to take their power back definitely. But I think they also need to approach it all with a level of compassion. And again, forgiveness is about releasing something within yourself. It's not actually about the other person and how they feel about the situation. Forgiveness is about releasing that poison, that negativity, that judgment within yourself and setting it free. So that then you can allow more space for more love-based constructs. That's just my thoughts on the matter, Patricia. People can, I suppose, take it or leave it. However they choose.

Patricia: Yeah, that's awesome. Because the other angle I want to approach it from is, and I want to pick your brain on this Andrew, so this is going to be good.

Andrew: Awesome. Please do.

Patricia: All right. So I'm going to just use my own personal experience and I'm sure many women out there can identify with this as well of we're tired of being sexualized. We really are. And I'm one of them who my whole life, because I was born with this specific body that men find attractive and I have been the target of a lot of sexual misbehavior by men. And so for a lot of us women who have dealt with this our whole life, so back to the Gillette commercial, when the man was ogling her and he held out his hands like he was touching her breasts kind of thing and you could tell she was clearly disturbed and disgusted by his behavior.

Here's where I kind of want to pick your brain on is, obviously he was really kind of harming her. Not physically, but emotionally. He was putting her in a place in her mind of, "I'm just an object. I'm here just for a man's pleasure or whatever." And making her feel disgusted about how he was treating her. So what I want to ask you on that is, is it really judgment then? Because the other man stepping in was basically sticking up for her. Because she was being abused in a way, verbally. Not physically, but just verbally and energetically, I guess you could say. Is that judgment, would you say that's judgment? When someone is sticking up for somebody else?

Andrew: That's a beautiful question. I'm really glad you raised that actually. Because look, ultimately, yes. It is judgment. Judgment's judgment. Judgment isn't anything else. However, judgment can also happen in a way that is correcting a wrong. Judgment doesn't necessarily need to be something that is very wrong and this is where a lot of the issues with dichotomies, you know, like the love and fear dichotomy. But dichotomies have their complications and this is part of the thing that we came here to experience as our lives, as a physical being in a physical world, is to try and better understand what these all are. I love the fact that that man spoke up, that was the right thing to do in my mind. Particularly if the woman was feeling like she couldn't stand up for herself. And look, any woman in that situation, you've probably been in that situation enough times to know-

Patricia: Oh, many, many times.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah. It's very hit and miss. Even if you were to stand up for yourself, you in fact could be making matters worse for yourself because you just don't know what mental state the man is in. If he's behaving like that in the first instance, I would suggest that he's not all that stable to begin with. But the other man stepping in and ... Look, I was always raised in an old school gentleman's kind of way. I made friends with a couple of good friends. My good friends Sam and my good friend Lori. We met in year five at the school. We're still friends to this day. We're still in regular contact with each other. We love hanging out and a lot of that's because they also grew up with the same old world, gentlemanly, chivalrous behaviors and beliefs together.

I believe a man should hold a door open for a woman. I believe that a woman should be allowed to order her meal first. I believe that, every night at dinner table, if Michelle prepares a meal, I teach my boys that we need to thank the person who's made the meal and that thanks needs to be genuine and all that sort of stuff. Yes, she may see it as her role or her obligation, in the same way some nights I feel like it's my role and obligation to cook a meal. But either way we should give thanks to those that are doing things for us. No matter what it is. Even when Michelle washes the clothes and all that sort of stuff, I want to teach my boys the right way to do things, stand up for the right things.

One story I tell them over and over again is my good friend Sam, the one of the two that I've known since I was 10 years old, since year five, he was always one to stand up for the underdog. It's something I admired so greatly about him through high school. If any kid was being bullied, he would literally step in between the bully and the kid being bullied and he would say to the bully, "Pick on someone your own size. If you want to have a go at him, come and have a go at me."

He did that time and time and time again and I admired that so much. To the point that I eventually started to get the courage up to do it myself. But I tell my boys that story because I want them to see that being a man is not about being this big chest beating arrogant hero. Being a man is about standing up for what's right. Being a man is leading by example, doing the right thing, treating people with respect.

I once said to my son, I've got a teenage boy who's 15 and he's now starting to try and understand his sexuality, trying to understand how to act in front of girls. All this sort of stuff. It's tragically awkward and hilarious at best. But it's also beautiful to watch. And I said to Jamie one day, I said, "Jamie, any man can make a woman have sex with them. Any man can. We can physically restrain a woman and do it if that's how we want to be represented." I said, "But that's not what being a man is all about. Being a man is treating a woman in a way, the right way, the gentle way, in respect of her body and respect of who she is so that she actually comes back asking for more and she feels comfortable in doing so." I said, "Any man can be an idiot." I said, "But a real man. A real man does it properly."

And you could see the light bulb go on him for that. Not that he was in any way trying to force himself or anything, cause he wasn't. It's not in his nature. But he suddenly realized that, the thing that I worry about, the thing that scares me the most, apart from drugs, kids and drugs terrifies me, but is the prevalence of things like porn and stuff like that that's on the Internet. That any child can pick up a phone or a tablet and access it in a split second just by googling it. And I've had to sit down and talk to him and explain to him, that stuff's not real. It's there for entertainment purposes. It gives a false sense of reality around what intimacy is. And I think real men, they need to step up and they need to own the fact that if don't know that, they need to learn it. It's as simple as that.

Because the ongoing objectification of women is just not on anymore. And women are speaking their mind, they're speaking up and I think rightly so. I think it's about time that they do so. It brings a tear to my heart that they need to do so. It bothers me, the fact that the humans, we have evolved to a point where this is even an issue. I say to [inaudible 00:33:06] all the time, "This is 2019 people. Wake up to yourself. Are we really still carrying on like this?" Really, when you think about it, isn't that madness and insanity in its own way? But it still happens. It still carries on. I see it in the workplace all the time.

Patricia: Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I think it's just generations and generations upon conditioning that can take a long time to de-condition. Yes.

Andrew: Correct. Absolutely. And yes, education is necessary. But people need to take charge of their own choices, their own behaviors. They need to realize that they are the ones that are in control of them. Even if it's unconscious, they're still responsible and universal law. Whatever choices they make, there is a consequence to it. And if they're going to be making daft, stupid choices, and those choices are in any way about offending or affecting anyone, let alone the objectification of women or misogynism, they've got to deal with the consequences that come with it. It's as simple as that.

Patricia: Yeah. And I think sometimes too, other men calling them out on that behavior, especially if that man wasn't raised with that awesome example that you were with Andrew. I think ideally every man should be raised with that example that you were. But unfortunately that's not always the case. Some men are not raised with that example, so they don't know or don't understand that their behavior isn't acceptable.

Andrew: Agreed. That's exactly right. And look, I agree. I agree with the point that you're making. Completely and unreservedly. Men do need to take up the challenge and pull out the men up and be the man that they came here to be. And yes, there may be a consequence of that. A conflict may arise and out of that conflict someone might get hurt. That is always a possibility. But to me, I would rather have that conflict between me and another man doing the wrong thing than a conflict between a man and a woman who can't defend herself. To me, that's a decision that I'm happy to make.

Patricia: Yes. I am applauding over here. Yes.

Andrew: So look, I love the fact that you raised this discussion. I'm loving the way these discussions are forming and everything on these podcasts because I think these are really, really big issues that need to be heard and need to be discussed. And in time, when I get these podcasts out there and stuff, I want to create a platform where people can also communicate back and forth. In time maybe we'll open up a phone line so that we can have these discussions and get people talking and communicating about this sort of stuff. Because this stuff is very, very real. And I think it's really important that everybody contributes.

Patricia: Yes. I look forward to that day because that is going to be amazing when we can do that. Yeah.

Andrew: Fabulous. Fabulous.

Patricia: Oh, I love it. This was a great subject and it may seem like we got off track, but we didn't because really in all honesty, it really was talking about how you need to, in order to fix something, not put the same energy into it in order to fix it. You have to put in a different energy.

Andrew: That's right. And that's why I talk about the love and fear dichotomy and that's why I talk about, we need to ask ourselves what would love do? You know? That gentleman who was standing up for that woman, he might've stepped back and said, what would love do? Love would stand up for the wrong. He would stand up against the wrong. Sorry, chose my words wrongly. He would stand up against the wrong that's being performed. And to me that is an act of love. That is a choice that love would do. He just needs to do it in a way that's not aggressive, that is non-confrontational, that is offered through love in itself. And it can happen. We can have any discussion with anybody and do it from a point of love, I believe.

Patricia: That's perfect. Thank you for helping me understand that from a female perspective because that thought never came to my mind of how he could have done it differently, than man that was stepping in to speak up for the woman who felt like she couldn't do that for herself. Being surrounded by a bunch of men. From a male perspective, the one that you offered, that makes complete sense in my mind. So thank you because I don't think anybody else could have helped me understand it in that way unless they were a man. So perfect.

Andrew: You're very welcome.

Patricia: Thank you. Thank you.

Andrew: And look, great subject choices. I really enjoyed talking about that.

Patricia: Yes, me too. All right.

Andrew: All right, so everybody, thank you very much for joining us this week. It's been a real pleasure to have you here. If you want to know more about some of the things that we're covering or listen to some past issues, feel free to pop on my website at You can access all my pods and blogs and podcasts there as well. And also you can have a look at what services and what products I offer to the greater world too. You can also find me on Facebook through Andrew Hackett Australia and also on Instagram through Andrew S Hackett. Thank you again. I really enjoy your coming here and listening and thank you so much, Patricia, as well for all the value that you've added as well.

Patricia: Yes, thank you Andrew. And thank you to all the listeners for allowing me to speak out too.

Andrew: That's wonderful. Everybody, thank you again for a great week. Remember, at any point in time, you can choose love. Thank you.