So many of us have had to deal with sexual abuse in our lives.
This comes in varying degrees from various sources.
It is time we started to move forward, support each other, and show all others that it will no longer be tolerated.
The Fearless Personality Test
Take the Fearless Personality Test to get personalised feedback from Andrew on your Journey from Fear to Freedom.
Andrew Hackett: Good day, and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett, and I'm here
to talk to you about everything that the world needs to discuss about living a life
free from fear's restrictive boundaries so that you can not only live a limitless
life, but so that you can become truly illimitable.
I am here from sunny Australia talking with my remarkable cohost, Patricia Morris who has her own highly successful podcast series delving into the
mysteries of the universe and how we live within it.
Good day, everyone. You're listening to Illimitable Living, and I'm here with the
remarkable Patricia Morris to talk to you about a range of subjects that
ultimately are all about living a life without limits, living a life incapable of being
limited, which is ultimately the endpoint that we all desire to achieve, either
consciously or unconsciously.
Good day, Patricia. How are you doing. You had a good week?
Patricia Morris: I had an excellent week. Thank you.
Andrew Hackett: Fabulous. That's great, and it's lovely to have you back again. You know, I'm
really enjoying recording these podcasts with you and having your fabulous
energy on board. Thank you for that.
Patricia Morris: Oh well thank you. Yes, this is a wonderful collaboration that we're doing together, just because we have the feminine aspect and the masculine aspect,
and I think that's a beautiful thing when both ... I don't want to say sides,
because it's not really sides, but both energies can kind of present their
Andrew Hackett: Beautifully said. I couldn't agree more actually. So tell me, what are your thoughts, what do you want to talk about today?
Patricia Morris: Well, it's been in the news a lot lately I know in the United States and in Australia, and throughout the world actually, various institutions are in scandals
with sexual abuse. And I know that's a topic that is near and dear to my heart,
and yours as well, so I thought that would probably be a good topic, because I'm
sure unfortunately there are others out there who may be listening who have
dealt with this, not maybe in those institutions, but just in another aspect of
So, being that we both have experience with this issue, I thought it would be
great for us to talk about that, to kind of help anybody out there who may be
struggling with this.
Andrew Hackett: Yeah, look, great subject choice today, Patricia. Look, it is very near and dear to my heart, and I think it's a very important thing that we need to discuss, because certainly there's a lot of news coverage going on at the moment. If it's
not different churches of variety of belief systems, effectively, it's coming out of
the woodwork that these institutions have been either turning a blind eye or
perhaps even sanctioning through inaction the ability for people to abuse or
sexually abuse children.
You know, even other instances where we're saying ... particularly what's very
red hot topic at the moment in Australia is Australia's most senior Catholic has
been actually convicted of sexual abuse himself, and the questions that that
raises across the board I think are far reaching. There have been royal
commissions held into these institutionalized sexual abuse cases, not just in
Australia but all through Europe, Ireland, UK and across into America as well.
And of course, more recently, just in the last few weeks, as a result of the
documentary that's come out, the ongoing saga associated with Michael
Jackson and his music, and more to the point his actions and choices have really
been starting to reflect back on him and his estate.
And so look, I think this is a really good subject for us to talk about and share
our own personal thoughts with all of this, because I think it's something that
just needs to be out in the open, it just needs to be discussed.
Patricia Morris: It does, and maybe this is something I need to kind of catch up on. I tend to bury my head in the sand sometimes when it comes to news in the world-
Andrew Hackett: Yeah, me too.
Patricia Morris: ... because literally it can be depressing. And I consider myself an empath, or at least I identify as an empath, and for those of us who are very sensitive souls,
the news is just a depressing thing most of the time. So I'm trying to strike that
balance of kind of wanting to listen to what you really need to know and be
aware of versus what you're like, uh, I just don't even want to hear about that
today kind of thing, is a tough thing to strike a balance with.
So the Michael Jackson thing, I guess I have to say I'm completely unaware of
what's going on with that. I'm going to have to educate myself. So I didn't even know that was coming up again. I know he had this going on before he died, but
it's been coming up again it sounds like.
Andrew Hackett: Yeah, so from what I can gather, a couple of the kids that were initially involved in some court action or legal action many years ago have resurfaced now that
he has died, and are effectively talking their truth about what's happened. And
of course the Michael Jackson camp have got their own truth. And I think part of
the difficulty we've got here is ... and this is the same difficulty we've got with
institutional abuse by a variety of different religious orders and organizations, is
people invest so much time, energy, and their own personal self value and
worth to these institutions.
In the same way, I've always loved Michael Jackson's music. Michael Jackson's music has always been world leading. As a musician, as an artist, he has always been groundbreaking in everything that he's done. So to find out that someone
that I had admired for so much and for so long, particularly for his remarkable,
beautiful, God-given talent, to then find out that there's the possibility, or
certainly that there are allegations that he has interfered with children on an
ongoing basis, it's a bit of a difficult thing to wrestle with.
In the same way I know, for instance, in Australia a lot of Catholics are really
having difficulty with accepting on one of the point trying to understand what's
next for them after the most senior Catholic was charged with and convicted of
child sexual abuse, and is now a convicted sex offender. What happens to their
belief system? The church, for instance, you know, I'm raised Catholic, born and
I don't identify as Catholic anymore. In fact, I don't necessarily identify into any
particular denomination because from my personal experience and the way I've
sort of ... my belief systems have been updated over the years, I tend to believe
in something that's more universal, like love, and doing the right thing for
others, and living a life of servitude towards humanity and helping humanity
solve its problems, rather than participating in an organization that seeks to tell
us how we should live our lives, tell us what is right and wrong, when they in
themselves quite throughout their organization, not just as individual priests,
but even throughout their organization, have been making decisions that are
contrary to their own statements, contrary to their own belief system. In fact,
even contrary to their own religious doctrines.
And I think that leaves a lot of people kind of left standing out in the cold.
They're sort of thinking, well what do we do now? How do we cope with this?
How do we deal with this? I'm not too sure what to think or feel on the matter.
And it's kind of leaving a bit of a gray area there for a lot of people. And I think that's a good thing for us to sort of explore and talk about
Patricia Morris: Yes, it definitely is. And I can say at least from here on the other side of the
world, in the United States, at least where I live here in Utah, the predominant
religion is the Mormon religion, and they're going through their own scandal too
regarding priests, or they call them bishops here, but it's the equivalent of a
priest, having the same thing, the sexual abuse and hiding it and wanting to
instead of face a scandal, just kind of bury things.
But I think the way the world has turned these days is you can't hide things
anymore. With the internet out there, it used to be even 20 years ago, if
something like this on this grand of a scale would happen, it would be easy to
sweep it under the rug and hide it and pretend like it never existed. But in this
modern day of technology, you can't hide anything anymore. Things have to be more transparent than they used to be. And so I find that all these institutions
out there that were in a place of being able to do those things in the past can't
do that anymore. It's really getting the news out to people to really question
what they're actually believing I think.
Andrew Hackett: I agree. I agree. And so someone like myself, I mean, my story on this subject is,
you know, it's no secret. In my book, Free From Fear, I clearly outlined that I've
suffered from sexual abuse from a teacher when I was a teenager myself, and
the effects that that had had on me a vast majority of my life from that point
onwards. Some 20 to 25 years later I was still reeling with the effects of that
And although for me I have now processed that, I have now understood that, I
now know why that happened, and the entangled nature of how it influenced
where I am now. Ultimately speaking, if that hadn't have happened, I probably
wouldn't be where I am now, and therefore I wouldn't be able to help people as
inherently as I can now. Not just deal with sexual abuse within themselves, but
get their life out of whatever rut they find themselves in through the thoughts
and choices and belief systems that they've developed over time. And ultimately
it all comes down to the fact that those belief systems no longer are valid for
But the same thing applies, ultimately speaking, when we're dealing with
subjects like sexual abuse. A lot of people, in my experience certainly, and
certainly in a lot of people that I have worked with, the sexual abuse that they
have experienced leaves them with a lot of guilt and shame. They blame
themselves for it even if they were just a child at the time. They believe, or
they're led to believe that they are somehow responsible or at fault for it
And first of all, I'd just like to say to people, it is not your fault. What people do
to you is not your fault. It is a reflection of who they are, not a reflection of who
you are. And you are not alone in these sorts of matters. Anybody who has ever
said that you are alone in dealing with that, they're just flat out wrong,
particularly if that's come from your abuser as well. Abusers, they like to control
through fear and say that if you ever say anything that they will punish someone
you love or they'll punish you, more to the point, or that people won't believe
you and all that sort of stuff.
I think there's enough evidence out there now for people to truly understand
they are not alone in dealing with what they are dealing with, and seeking
professional help in my opinion is absolutely essential to breaking that negative
guilt and shame based cycle that we find ourselves almost self medicating on
every single day while we're still trying to deal with it all. I personally am so relieved to have spoken out and to have opened up. And even getting my story out to the world, to be quite honest with you, was a fear based thing that I wanted to overcome, because for 25 odd years I'd kept it to myself and hadn't even told my parents about what happened. And in fact, actually I actually told my parents the night before the book was going to be
released to the world, because obviously I didn't want them reading it. I wanted
them to hear it from me.
And although they took time to process it in their own ways, Dad's a very
practical man, and he processed it in his own way, Mom took a little longer to
process it all. But they now see it the way I see it. It was an integral part of
making me who I am, and without it I just simply wouldn't be the person I am
today. And I love the person that I am today. I love what I'm doing, where I'm
going, how I'm helping people. But more importantly, I love myself for myself,
and to me, going from a point of spiraling out of control, self medicating, guilt
and shame, to being in a point where you genuinely love yourself for every
aspect of who you are, that's an enormous bridge to cross.
But doing it with the help of someone professional that can help guide you
through all of that in itself can make it so much easier, and can give a level of
perspective, a different perspective, a level of clarity that you yourself perhaps
have not been able to find up until that point of which then you do find it
through the help of someone else. So I highly suggest, anybody who's going
through something like sexual abuse, don't be afraid to speak up. Find someone
professional who can help you overcome the issues that you have been dealing
with to date, and just move on with your life. I promise you it will feel better
than anything else you've ever done.
Patricia Morris: Yes, that is very, very true. I speak from my own experience saying that as well.
Once you can get the help that you need, and to help you kind of make that
switch, or that shift in your mind of how you feel about yourself, and
consequently how you feel about other people, because a lot of times how we
feel about ourselves is how we feel about other people, or vice versa.
Once you can make that shift in your mind and heal from what happened to
you, you're able to kind of be where you are now, Andrew, and where I am now,
able to speak about it without crying, without pain, without shame, without all
the other feelings that will accompany what has happened to you, and you can
actually be a source of strength and inspiration and comfort to others who have
gone through the same thing.
Andrew Hackett: Yeah look, you know what Patricia, I'm so proud of you for not only saying that, but for being that in every single way. Overcoming something like that is not an
easy task, but when you've done it, you realize how easy it was. Coming out the
other end, you know, I didn't deal with it for so long because to be quite honest
with you, I thought it was going to be an impossible mountain to climb. But when I started climbing that mountain, and yes I did so with some professional
help, which again I would recommend to everyone who is seeking that sort of
level of change, you start to realize that the mountain's not as big and as scary
as you perhaps once thought.
And this is where the ego comes in. The ego wants to keep us controlled. The
ego wants to keep us disconnected, and away from the solutions in our life,
because as soon as we start finding the solutions in our life, the ego has less and
less influence, and less and less relevance in our lives. And of course, ultimately
speaking, it's the ego controlling the person who is the perpetrator as well, or is
the abuser. That fear based driven need to control, to dominate, even if it is just
a simple sexual desire thing that they're struggling to deal with, that is all fear
based and ego driven within them.
And it took me a long time to forgive my abuser. My abuser never ended up in
court, my abuser actually took his own life when he was confronted by police
back in early 2000, and host of the tailpipes type of aspect, and he never got to,
you know, his victims and stuff, and there were many of us. I mean at the time I
didn't think there were. I thought I was the only one. But there were many,
many, many victims, not only at my school but also at a previous school as well,
and they never got to see their abuser face justice. And I think that was also a
part of a secondary issue for all of us as well.
And in fact, for me, I had started a legal case, because I actually started the legal
case initially, to try and give my information to the lawyers so that the other
people who were in the middle of their legal cases, it would help their cases,
you know, just more information. This guy wasn't just doing it to one or two
people, he was doing it to more of us.
Anyway, I then was convinced by the lawyer to stop our legal case, and then
what happened is over time with the professional help, I started to heal. And I
had gotten to a point where I believed I healed completely, and I still believe
that today. But every time the lawyer would call, or every time something was
mentioned about the legal case, it would send me right back into that pain body
again. And I didn't want to be there anymore, because I'd moved on.
So I actually scrapped my legal case and put it behind me, because I just sort of
said, "Look, no. I don't want to go on with this anymore." I just, I actually
wanted to move on, because to me, there was nothing that the legal case could
bring. I thought the legal case would give me an apology. I thought the legal
case would give me some sort of resolution. But I realized after I'd found
resolution through more appropriate channels that in fact an apology was never
going to come, an admittance of liability was never going to happen.
Patricia Morris: Yeah, so you brought up an excellent point that I want to delve into a little bit
more. You'd mentioned earlier about how you were able to forgive him, and that is huge. Just speaking from my own experience, and I know you probably
can say the same thing as well, forgiveness is huge. Not just to yourself, because
there is a lot of guilt and shame that comes with what happened to you. A lot of
times you feel like there's some ... you need to forgive yourself for certain things
that happened. But also in the abuser, I had to come to the point in my life
where I thought ... where I realized, I should say, that they were just acting upon
because somebody abused them too.
Not that it makes what they did right, I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior or
despicable behavior, but if we can at least see the other person in a different
light of, you know what, they were abused their whole life too and they didn't
really ... it really changes the brain chemistry at that point when that can
happen. So, he was acting upon it, of course, in a way that wasn't healthy, and
just kind of spreading it more. But if we can understand at least that there's a
reason why they were doing what they were doing, not that it makes it right
again, but it kind of helps us see it in a different light of getting us closer to
being able to forgive that person, especially when it's something that you feel
like you could never ever forgive them for.
If you can just start chiseling away one little tiny chunk at a time, it doesn't have
to come overnight ... and it won't come overnight. If you can just find one little
thing, and maybe it'll just be a huge, huge endeavor to do that, to find one little
thing that you can see from their point or their perspective, eventually that does
chisel away that huge, ginormous mountain of forgiveness.
So, I really liked that you mentioned the forgiveness aspect of it because that is
huge in the healing process, and trying to turn everything that happened to you
Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Yeah look, it's really, really important, and a lot of people think that
forgiveness in itself is something we must offer someone. To me, forgiveness
within ourself is the starting point.
And yes, you know, for me, forgiveness came from the realization that what had
happened to me was in fact actually important for me to travel the path I
needed to travel on, to get myself to where I am now. And I know that kind of
sounds like a bit of a cliché, or it sounds like a bit of a ... I don't know. What it
was ultimately, the universe knew ... And look, I have a range of different
beliefs, and one of them is the fact that before we incarnate into this life that
we want to experience, that we in fact set out a bit of a path for ourselves.
Now, sometimes to travel that path, really unfortunate things need to happen.
And ultimately speaking, we come here to experience life and everything life has
to offer, including the traumatic stuff, including the tough stuff. To go through
that and live through that and survive that in itself has a level of strength to it
that in my opinion is to be admired and honored.
And for me, my faith in myself was always greater than my desire to destroy
myself as a result of my abuse. And having that faith just a little bit stronger,
having that faith being just a little bit more powerful, because of course, faith is
a love based construct, and it is more powerful than a fear based construct, like
the need to sort of to destroy one's self. To overcome that ... and look, a large
part of that faith was born from a deep inner yearning that I was almost like a
superhero with no cause. I just, I knew I was destined for something greater, I
just didn't know what that was or how I was even going to get there.
When I started to heal, when I started to do the work required to quote
unquote, "Fix myself," I started to realize a pattern that was happening over
quite a period of time, and in fact why that pattern was sort of necessary.
Because that process, that process of 20 to 25 years of shame and guilt and my
head at the bottom of a bottle, the rock bottom that came from all of that was
in fact the catalyst to help me discover my superpower, to help me to discover
my role, my purpose in life, in helping others to achieve their best, to overcome
their worst, for them to realize freedom and love filled abundance within their
own lives and for their own families.
And if I hadn't have gone through that hardship, in all honesty with you, I don't
think I would have discovered my superpower. I don't think I would have
discovered my role, my purpose in life. And to me, if I can offer anybody the
opportunity to find their purpose, and I'm yet to come across someone that I
have been able to help find their purpose in life, but not just find their purpose,
to take action on that purpose and overcome their pain and their suffering and
everything that they need to work on, every opportunity I have to help
someone like that is truly a blessed opportunity for me.
Patricia Morris: You know, as you were speaking I was thinking, this could be another great
podcast that we do, another podcast episode of being able to look upon those
things in life that brought you great pain, or maybe are still bringing you great
pain, and how you can kind of see them from a different angle or a different
perspective of how it's actually served you in many ways. Not that you would
ever want to go through it again, of course, but how you were able to come out
much stronger, how you were able to be where you are in life right now. I think
that would be an excellent podcast to talk about how people can identify that
within themselves and kind of flip that switch and turn it around in their minds
and know that because they went through that how much stronger they are,
how more compassionate, how more loving.
And I'm not trying to say that what happened to them was a good thing,
because I don't want to ever say that and devalue people's pain, because the
pain is real. But I do like to try to look at a different aspect of it, and that is, what
did you learn from all this? Who is the person you are today because of this?
And what choices do you have in your grasp right now that you can make that
can turn that around to make it even stronger for you.
Andrew Hackett: I agree. I think that's a really healthy process to take, and this is a process that I
help people with as well. Yes, you're right, the trauma that is caused is never a
good thing. There's no point in trying to even try and look at it that way.
However, what we can do through a change in perspective, through looking at
things through a slightly different lens, we can see the good that can come from
it. And to me, I've met some people with some truly horrific pasts, you know,
things that honestly I didn't even know went on. And the strength that can be
found from those darkest, darkest of times is a strength that just cannot be
found anywhere else. That strength can only come from those darkest of times.
And helping them find the mechanism, the trigger, the spark that lights that
strength within them and sets them on a path towards extraordinary greatness,
to me is a beautiful thing to see within another.
To be present with them when that spark lights, and to watch decades of fear
and trauma just fall away off their shoulders like a waterfall just cleansing them
is such a beautiful thing to witness within a person, because that to me, that's a
real superpower to be able to offer that to someone.
And of course, it's not something that I do, it's not my doing. All it is is providing
them with a different perspective and they do it. They're the hero in their story.
They're the hero that enables the opportunity for that spiritual or evolutionary
growth to happen from what is being the one thing that could possibly
completely destroy them. It's a beautiful thing to witness, it really is.
Patricia Morris: It really is. In fact, I just almost started crying when you were saying that,
because I know exactly what you're talking about. I've seen it not only in my
own life, but in other people's lives too when they get to that moment, and it is
one of the most sacred things that could ever happen is when you have that
Andrew Hackett: Absolutely, absolutely. And look, I refer to ... you know, we all heard the term
rock bottom. It's when we hit this rock bottom and we hit the deepest, darkest
sort of pit of our life that we feel that we can just not get out of. And I say to
people when they reach out to me when they're in their bottom, I say, "Bring it
on. Embrace it. Celebrate it. Because that is the moment of your greatest hour.
That is the point of which everything else is up from here."
And I say to them, "Let's just stay in this moment for a little while and analyze
what's actually going on, because in the bottom of that pit, right at the bottom,
that very rock bottom, is the answer." And it's always there for everyone. It is
always there. Mine was there, other people that I help, it's always there for
them as well.
And ultimately speaking, the answer comes from the choice to stand up proud
and strong, like that superhero rising from the ashes, and say, "I am no longer going to allow myself to remain here. I am going to pull myself out of here. I'm
going to do what it takes to live a life that is beyond this and beyond this
restriction of limitations."
And the joy of that, when you come out of that rock bottom, you know, because
your rock bottom is the worst it gets. It's the absolute pit of hell. I believe in fact
that is, you know-
Patricia Morris: It is hell.
Andrew Hackett: ... that is hell on earth.
Patricia Morris: That is hell on earth, yes.
Andrew Hackett: Yeah, that's right. That's right. And when they realize that they've come out of
that the other side, and in fact they're stronger and empowered and happy and
excited again ... you know, in fact, some people, they can't wait to get out of
bed in the morning because they just want to get on with their life. The
realization from that is the worst is gone, and they've survived it. They've
There is nothing that breaks away the barriers of limitations like that feeling,
that realization, that change in perspective. And for everybody that has ever
been ... had to deal with the trauma of sexual abuse and the guilt, the shame
that comes from it, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I promise you there
And if you want to contact me so that we can work through that and find your
light, then do so, reach out to me. Go to AndrewHackett.com.au and get in
contact with me, send me an email to Andrew@AndrewHackett.com.au if you
want. And I'm happy to have a discussion at how I can help you with all of that,
because to me that's why I'm here. That's the commitment that I've made to people. And all we need to do is to change your perspective, to show you a
process of how to change your life.
And to me, it works 100% of the time. Everybody that I work with, it changes
their lives fundamentally and for the positive. And it's a long life lasting change
because we make sure that we do it properly by fixing all of the problems, the
perspectives, the fear based mind chatter that goes on in the background from
the ego, by correcting all of that and switching that off. Everything is possible for
anybody who seeks healing and a true new direction in life free of the trauma
and the suffering and the guilt and the shame that comes from it.
Patricia Morris: Yes, yes. If you don't mind, I would like to leave a final note too before we go.
It's coming up in my mind, my intuition is telling me that I think there might
have been some people that were triggered a little bit by when we brought up forgiveness, so I want to kind of explain that a little bit more before we go if
Andrew Hackett: That's great, yes.
Patricia Morris: And I want to do it through a story, because I find that often times through a story that can kind of help people understand a little bit better.
Andrew Hackett: Please, please do. I think that's a great idea.
Patricia Morris: So, I was working on a friend of mine, probably about a year ago now, working on meaning I'm a Reiki master so I do energy work and all that good stuff. So
when I was working on him, he had been ... I mean, one of those horrible
trauma stories that you can think about, about being abused, that was the worst
kind that he had been through. And I didn't know that at the time, but when I
was working on him, the abuser actually, who had passed on, actually came
through, and he was standing beside me.
And he said, "I want him to forgive me."
Andrew Hackett: Yeah.
Patricia Morris: And I was like, I'm not going to tell him this. But it just kept coming through that
I needed to tell him that. So I did, and then of course the thing that I was
worried about happened. He hadn't healed from that and hadn't forgiven him.
But as soon as I mentioned that to him, it triggered him and he said, "I'm not
forgiving him. That man caused hell in my life. I have had all this stuff in my life
happen because of this man, and I can't forgive him."
And so, the abuser was telling me, "I actually want him to forgive me for his own
peace, because he is not in the place in life where he needs to be right now
because of me. And if he can find it in his heart to forgive me for what I did for
him ... This has nothing to do with me, this is all about him."
And so, the abuser was actually telling me this, so I can imagine the abuser's
probably gone to a place on the other side and has grown from what he has
done and what not, and he was trying to give that peace to my friend who had
been so horribly abused by him in this life. So when I told him that, I said, you
know, I'm going to call him John. That's not his name. I said, "John, he's telling me that he wants you to forgive him for your own peace, because you have this anger, you have this anxiety, you have all these things that are preventing you
from being who you came here to be. Because you're holding onto that, you're
not able to progress as much as you agreed to do before you incarnated into
So I told him that, and immediately it was like he just broke into sobs and just ...
it was just the most sacred moment for him to finally be like, yeah, this isn't
about him. Forgiveness isn't really about the other person. Sometimes they
could care less if you forgive them or not. Sometimes they do care if you forgive
them or not. But none of that really should matter. What really matters is you
are setting yourself free when you can forgive the other person.
Andrew Hackett: Absolutely, Patricia. I couldn't agree more, and in fact, you mentioned
sometimes they just ... they don't care whether you forgive them or not. The
other aspect is that sometimes they don't even recognize the fact that they've
caused you harm. They don't even know that there's a need for forgiveness.
You know, judgment is a poison that we think we are inflicting on others, which
is only ever poisoning us. And forgiveness is the antidote. Forgiveness is not
actually about relieving another person's pain. That other person, one, may not
be feeling pain from it. They may not be even aware that there is a reason to
feel pain for it, because they may have been so unconscious when the abuse
Forgiveness is always about ourselves, about creating a space of peace and
harmony where there is darkness within us. And this is why I love the
Ho'oponopono stuff that the ancient Hawaiian [inaudible 00:34:50], because it's
not something you have to do to someone. You don't have to forefront up to
someone's face and say that to them. I think you doing so is probably more
powerful, but you can just do it, almost like your high being is talking to their
high being and resolving that negative energy that has been allowed to be
created in this life from anybody's acts, you know, whether it's someone's act of assault or predation or something like that, or whether it's in any way
contributed to by our own thoughts on the matter after the fact.
For me, my abuse was a single event that happened in an afternoon. But I
contributed to that by allowing it for 25 years to almost destroy me over and
over and over again with the guilt and shame that I had. So for me, it wasn't just
forgiveness of that person, of my abuser, it was forgiving myself for allowing
myself to go into those dark spaces. Albeit, I allowed myself unconsciously. It
wasn't something I was consciously doing, it was completely unconscious. But a
choice is still a choice even if it's made unconsciously. I say that all the time.
So I completely agree with you. Forgiveness is not actually about relieving the
other person of any pain. It is always about relieving ourselves of the pain that
we are experiencing. I completely, absolutely ... beautifully said.
Patricia Morris: Thank you. Yeah, that just came to my mind while you were talking about that, and I know because sexual abuse is an extremely painful thing that can happen
to a person, and the damage it can cause can happen on so many levels, the conscious, the subconscious, and all the different layers that are in between
And with that, forgiveness is one of them. I'm not saying it's all of it, but it's a
huge chunk of it. Being able to come to that place where you can forgive
yourself and others is just so freeing, so freeing. And I speak from my own
experience when I say that.
Andrew Hackett: Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us, Patricia. That's really valuable. You're right, ultimately speaking, our life is what our life is, and we can make it
however we want to make it. But if we are making choices that are based on
past events and traumas and the judgment that we feel towards that, there's
only one thing that's happening there, and that's we're poisoning ourselves and our own life experience.
And the quicker that we can learn to transcend that and move on, the quicker
we can start to find true peace in our hearts, not just for ourselves, but for our
family, for our children, and all that sort of stuff, because they feel our pain as
well. That was the main leading living change for me, to finally get up and to fix
myself, as I used to all it, it was because of my children. I just realized, they
deserve to have a father that is free of this sort of pain, that is free of this sort of
trauma and the guilt and the shame that goes with it. And they have since, you
know, now that they're older and they understand what my story is, they have
since thanked me for taking the time and effort to do the work necessary to be
the father that they now know and love, who's very active with them and
spends a lot of time with them.
And ultimately speaking, what do I do, I do for them. To me, that's really
important to me because that's in fact what I believe my job to be.
Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. I love it. How despite everything that has happened to you, you've been able to turn it into a huge strength of yours. That's beautiful, and I think everybody has that power
to do that, no matter who you are.
Andrew Hackett: Absolutely we do, yeah, absolutely we do. And getting professional help, that often helps. But it is something you can figure out for yourself. You've just got to
give it the time and the energy that it needs. You've got to really commit to
what is necessary to make it happen. And anybody can do that, they just, again,
it all comes down to that simple choice. It feels difficult at first, but it does
become simple when you start exercising it often enough.
Patricia Morris: Yes.
Andrew Hackett: Well thank you, Patricia. What a great subject for what is effectively our third podcast. I'm really excited about that, and I hope everybody's gotten a lot from this. Again, if you or anybody you know has suffered from such traumas like
institutionalized sexual abuse or sexual abuse of any form, I highly recommend
you reach out and talk to someone.
In Australia, we have a phone line called Lifeline, and I know a lot of other
countries have similar things where you can pick up the phone and talk to
someone who will help you at least get started towards the healing process.
And if anybody wants to contact me, you can email me at
Andrew@AndrewHackett.com or go to AndrewHackett.com today. You can
check things out there and contact me through the website as well. Obviously
I'm also on Facebook. If you search for Andrew Hackett Australia on Facebook
you can peek at my Facebook page, and I'm @AndrewSHackett on Instagram as
well if you want to peek at a whole bunch of the stuff that I post there, which
I'm getting lots of great feedback from people saying that it is starting to make a
real difference in their life, which is the reason why I do it as well.
So, thank you so much, Patricia. It's been such a pleasure to have you here
today. What a great subject choice, and I do hope that it is helping everybody
who's listening along as well.
Patricia Morris: Yes, I sure hope so too. That's also the reason why I do this as well, to speak from my own experiences and just from the wisdom that I've gained over the
years from all the other pain and trauma that I've been through too. And I hope
that everything that we're saying can help somebody out there for sure.
Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Thank you, everybody. Have a fabulous week. We'll see you again next week, and I hope that you keep smiling and sharing your smile with others.