The Big Guy in the Room

The time has come for men to talk about the Big Guy in the Room, because our idea of what the big guy in the room is, is leading us down a very dangerous path that is slowly destroying what it is to be a man, and more importantly how that man relates to the women around us.

It is time to discuss this because if we don’t, we will be left behind, lonely and afraid. It is ok to be the Big guy in the room, but first, we must all understand what that means.

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Andrew: Roy Hedge Williams and Michael Drew wrote a book called Pendulum and it talks about the me-we cycle and we are currently four or five years shy of the top of the pendulum, being halfway through the we cycle. And a lot of people say, well, what about the likes of Donald Trump? The way I explained it in, Donald Trump is a fabulous example of that counterbalance. In a time period of the spiritual revolution that the world is currently going through, which is synonymous with the we cycle, this collective interest. People like Donald Trump in fact, stand out. If we were at the top of a me cycle, he wouldn't stand out. He'd just in fact be the norm and we'd all be going along with it. But because he's not, and he does stand out, you know, I love him because he's an incredible case study.

Good day and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett and I'm here to talk about living a life free from fears, restrictive boundaries so that you can not only live a limitless life, but so that you can become truly illimitable. I am here in sunny Australia talking with my remarkable co-host, Patricia Morris, as we take you on a journey, delving deep into the mysteries of the universe and how we live within it. Join me on a journey towards living a truly limitless life on the Illimitable Living Podcast.

Good day everyone, you're listening to Illimitable Living, a podcast show ultimately about the discussions I believe we need to have so that we can just change our perspective on life and start living our life the way we deserve to be. We're here with Patricia Morris, the remarkable Patricia Morris. Good day Patricia, how are you doing today?

Patricia: I'm doing wonderful, thank you. And I think you're here with my dog as well. I don't know if you can hear-

Andrew: Fabulous.

Patricia: ... Him barking in the background, but I'm doing wonderful. Thank you for asking Andrew.

Andrew: Today I wanted to break from traditional a little bit and I'm going to take the reins on a particular subject, something that I really wanted to talk about. And what I want to talk about is this, the way I describe it as is being the big man in the room. And I know that the vast majority of my listeners are in fact female, however, I just want you to stay with me here for a second and I know I will get to my point and clarify what I mean.

Throughout my life, I have seen events happen around the world, events happen throughout my childhood, in the school yard, happen throughout the workplace for the last 25 years and it really led me to try and delve deep into understanding the psychology behind things. A lot of what I did in my profession as a commercial management consultant, a lot of it was about negotiation and reading people. And fortunately for me, it's really put me in good stead with what I do now. However, what I started to realize is, why do people bully other people? Why do kids bully other school kids? Why do people in the office place bully people?

And what I started to then lean towards was creating this label of the big man in the room. And I talk to my sons about this, because I'm really adamant when I'm talking with my sons about how they're treating others, that I don't want them to be a bully. I don't want them to be putting other people down, controlling other people, standing over people, coercing other people, manipulating other people. Because one, I think far too much happens already. Two, I don't think it's truly representative of who they are, although that is their choice how they want to represent themselves.

But I think the big issue though is, is because it's not something that's necessarily constructed of love, it is constructed of fear and it is the ego effectively gone mad. But the way I describe it to them, and I say this to them all the time. And look, usually what triggers me needing to say this is when I see one of my sons teasing the other one, picking on the other one, standing over the other one, dominating the other one, right? Is I say to them, did you know that the big boy, the big man in the room doesn't need to do any of that? And you know, the first few times I explained to them, I got this little puzzled look at them, because to them, and this happens in amongst the chemistry that happens, the hormones that happens within teenagers, particularly teenage boys.

And look, you'll have to excuse me, it possibly also happens in teenage girls as well. I just don't have any experience with teenage girls.

Patricia: It does.

Andrew: I was raised in a house. Well, I [crosstalk 00:04:52].

Patricia: It does.

Andrew: So I'm not just trying to say that this is about the boys per se, it's just from my experiential understanding and stuff. I was raised in a house of three teenage boys. I raise a household of three teenage boys as well. So it's kind of history repeating itself quite a bit. But what I say to them is, the big guy in the room doesn't need to do any of that. And the reason why is because if he's truly the big guy in the room, he's already the big guy in the room. The big guy in the room, doesn't need to put people down, doesn't need to dominate anyone, doesn't need to tease them, ridicule them, put them down. Doesn't need to bully them, coerce them, manipulate them.

If he's truly the big guy in the room, they will all know and they will look up to him. The big guy in the room knows he doesn't need to do any of that, but the big guy in the room also knows that all he needs to do is offer love. He needs to be a leader. He needs to grow and expand, and help people and empower people, show people the right way to think about things by living through example. The big guy in the room doesn't need to evangelize. The big guy in the room doesn't really even need to speak loudly. The big guy in the room doesn't necessarily want to be up on stage, he encourages others to get up on stage.

A true leader, as I've said in the past, is not the one who leads, the true leader is the one who actually creates the most leaders.

Patricia: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew: And I think this is just a really important message that I really wanted to get across, because ultimately speaking, I think it's really important because we see so much of it around the place. And look, I'll use our good friend Donald Trump as an example again. Again, I've said this before in another podcast, I'm not Republican, I'm not Democrat, I'm not even American, I'm an Australian. I have very little thought about our own political system and I certainly don't care about the political systems of other countries because politics in my mind is the ego gone completely mad. However-

Patricia: Yes.

Andrew: ... There is a reason why I love Donald Trump and just stay with me here for a second because I know a whole bunch of readers have just reached for their stop button in me saying, I really love Donald Trump. There is a good reason why I love Donald Trump, because I believe in every single society we need an example of counterbalance. And at the moment, Roy Hedge Williams and Michael Drew wrote a book called Pendulum and it talks about the me-we cycle. And we are currently about four or five years shy of the top of the pendulum, being halfway through the we cycle.

And a lot of people say, well, what about the likes of Donald Trump? Well I said, the way I explain it then Donald Trump is a fabulous example of that counterbalance. In a time period of the spiritual revolution that the world is currently going through, which is synonymous with the we cycle, this collective interest. People like Donald Trump in fact, stand out. If we were at the top of a me cycle, he wouldn't stand out. He'd just in fact be the norm and we'd all be going along with it. But because he's not and he does stand out. I love him because he's an incredible case study. Like in fact, there is no better case study right at the moment for that of the ego gone completely and utterly stark raving bonkers.

Patricia: Mm-hmm (affirmative), mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew: Now, whether you agree with his ideologies or not, I will still love you, I will still respect you and your right to believe and think how you choose and that will never change. It's just when I look at Donald and his thoughts, and his choices, his behaviors, some people might label him as narcissistic, others as sociopathic, others still maybe as psychopathic. The behavioral traits that he displays is in my personal opinion directly in contrast with the energy change that is happening throughout the world. Now if Donald really was the big guy in the room, he wouldn't need to oppress migrants, he wouldn't need to talk trash about everybody he comes across.

He wouldn't need to put others down, he wouldn't need to self-promote. And I hope I'm getting this across clearly here. We look at other types of leaders around the world and some of them are just as bad and some of them are doing a lot better. But the true leader, because a true leader is not interested in self-promotion, a true leader is only interested in the promotion of others, in empowering others, in putting others first. And the reason being is because leadership by its definition in my opinion, is based on unconditional love.

Patricia: Yes, yes. Can I present a different angle on that as well?

Andrew: Absolutely. I'd love you to.

Patricia: Yeah. So Donald Trump for me, I actually like him, not in the way, now before everybody hits stop, not in the way most people would think. Because, let's put it this way, Donald Trump triggers me in every way possible. And I have to say I love that because it's actually bringing up within me stuff that needs to be examined further.

Andrew: Sure.

Patricia: Patricia, why are you being triggered by this? Why are you being triggered by that? And I'm able to actually expose those things of myself that are buried very deeply to bring to the surface and examine and say, "Hey, why are you feeling this way? Is this because of something that's happened in your past? Or maybe it's a past life thing or whatever." But sometimes just acknowledging what that is, releases it and then the next time Donald Trump speaks, it doesn't trigger me anymore. So I'm actually grateful for those teaching moments. I don't think he means to do that, I don't think Donald Trump means to teach anybody actually, but he's actually a great teacher if we can look at it that way. That which anybody triggers us really, not just Donald Trump, anybody, to be honest with you, those are great moments for us to look inward and see why are we being triggered? What is the root of all of this?

Andrew: I completely agree and I'm so glad you put it that way too. You know, I say that everything that happens in the world, both at an individual level and a collective level gives us an opportunity. And it's not an opportunity for exploitation or to make money or anything like that, it's an opportunity for that spiritual growth, for that real personal moment to learn and understand. And we've seen this throughout history, even the great, awful events that happen in the world. Like you've got mass shootings all over America, you've also got recently, there was one in New Zealand. There is good that can come from absolutely everything, even the most terrifying and most traumatic of examples.

If it wasn't for Hitler we wouldn't understand in a modern world context, there's many iterations of Hitler that have happened throughout the millennia, I mean, over and over and over again. It's just, it is our modern century understanding of really what atrocities humans are truly capable of. And some people say these atrocities are still happening throughout Africa on a daily basis, yet we don't do much about it. These moments like Donald Trump are actually about trying to wake the rest of us up, if we see it like that. Collectively come together and rally for what we believe is in fact actually right.

And you know, some people connect with his message. Donald Trump, we've got to understand, he was only ever elected, whether you believe with he was correctly elected or not is another political discussion based on an American system I know nothing about. But-

Patricia: Yeah, don't even get me started on that.

Andrew: Yeah, okay. Look, and I know that I'm treading a very thin line here and look, I'm not doing it to create outrage, I'm doing it just as a case study so stay with me. These moments happen to enable us to see things that we couldn't normally see. We come here to experience physical life and throughout that physical life there are dichotomies. Those opposites must exist for the experiential process to happen. You cannot experience tall without short. You know, when I stand next to Michelle, she thinks of me as tall, but when I stand next to, I don't know, Tony Robbins, trust me I'm a complete short ass, I'm like a hobbit. Probably with big hairy feet and all. Anyway, that's what I'm saying, these things must exist in their experiential context.

Donald Trump, 40 years ago, probably would've been hailed as a hero because that was in the top of the we cycle. Even if you look at Tony Robbins' career, when Tony Robbins started his career 40 years ago at the top of the me cycle, his teachings, his approach was all about the me. Now he's all about the collective we. We all grow, we all change over time, but for us to be able to see the beauty in one thing, we must see the non beauty in another thing. I'm trying to think about what the opposite of, the ugly in something else.

Patricia: Yeah, it's like being no longer young, yeah.

Andrew: Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly right. In the same way, I see all of the time, usually in women, particularly women that have separated from their marriage for whatever reason, they're then raising their kids, maybe part-time, maybe full-time, depending on the circumstances, and they see themselves all the time having to adopt a more masculine energy to get by to survive. And that's because they have to play the role of both the mother and the father when the kids are in their presence. And I use this as a kind of a bit of an ideological kind of example. Because when I come into their space with my very strong and sometimes overbearing masculine energy, they're then suddenly allowed or they feel like they've been given permission, it's completely at a subconscious level and it happens at that soul based level. They immediately feel more comfortable embracing their feminine side and allowing that femininity to come through because suddenly they're in the presence of their masculinity.

Patricia: Like it gives them permission to do so.

Andrew: Correct, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Patricia: Yeah.

Andrew: That's right. Of course it's not my permission, that'd be ridiculous.

Patricia: For sure, but that's their higher self giving them that permission.

Andrew: Correct.

Patricia: Right.

Andrew: That's exactly right. And I saw that shift happen in Michelle when I first met her. She'd been raising her son mostly on her own for many, many years before I even met her. And she talked about the transformation that happened within her when we met, that suddenly she felt like she could let that masculine side of her go and she could start to fully embrace the true self, which was her feminine side. And I'm in love with Michelle's feminine side, I just bathe in it. It's remarkable. But I see this a lot in clients, for instance as well. And sometimes when I sit back and I talk to them about this, they just sort of sit back, "Oh my God, how do you know me so well?" And I'm going, well, it's not so much that I don't know you so well, than a lot of stuff that I talk about is very intuitively driven, but it's actually quite a common process that happens.

And sometimes when we're faced with something like Donald Trump, it is in fact the catalyst needed, the synchronistic event, the opportunity we have to find our great moment. Whatever that great moment is, maybe it's to support him, maybe it's to rally against him, maybe it's not about him at all, maybe it's actually about the collective. But you know, we've got to understand, he was only elected into power because we've become so disheartened in the political establishment. We're so tired of the lies. We're so tired of the rubbish. Look, as it turns out, some would possibly argue that he's worse than what he was rallying against in his pre-election period.

However, putting that aside, we see this across a lot of, we're seeing it in Australia, we see it through the Arab spring, we're seeing it across Europe, we're seeing that in the UK as well. People are reaching for the extreme because this highly, perhaps conservative approach is stifling and it's controlling. Now again, getting back to the big man in the room, if you want to be the big person in the room, you see anybody who's really the big person in the room and you will understand what exactly what I mean. They're usually the one not standing up the front, they're usually standing at the back. Usually they're quiet, they listen before they speak, they connect and they're present with people. They are about promoting others and supporting others. They've always got a kind word to say and never got a nasty word to say.

The big man in the room never, ever needs to judge someone, never ever needs to put someone down to make himself feel bigger or more powerful. And we do it all the time. I mean we all do it to one extent or another and we sometimes do it with our children as well, because it's easier to control people through fear than it is to empower them through love. And I can't say that enough, that the big man in the room doesn't need to do it and I say that to my sons all the time. If you want to be the big guy, love someone, don't put them down.

Patricia: Yes, absolutely. To say this, I had to laugh. I am definitely not the quiet person in the room. I'm a fire sign, so I'm actually the loud person in there, but it's not an obnoxious loud, it's more of, I think the quiet person can be just as loud as the loud person, but in a different way.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

Patricia: We each are kind of presenting our own way. As long as we're coming at it from the right energy, I think that's how you're the biggest person in the room, yeah.

Andrew: That's right.

Patricia: Yeah.

Andrew: Look, and don't get me wrong, I'm not sure to being loud myself, I'm not quite dancing on the table loud, but-

Patricia: Oh gosh no, no.

Andrew: But again, it's about where we are. People bully, they dominate, they repress, they control, they manipulate because what is actually happening, all of that's driven by fear. And when we're in that unconscious fear driven state, the ego is completely in control and the ego is running the show and in fact doing all of it, it's just doing it through us. We are like the robotic host that the ego lives within. Teenage boys, three teenage boys in the house, egos are full and strong. Each one of them has to be right even with their completely different opinions, and each one of them has to be smarter and funnier and all that sort of stuff. And look, I understand it's part of that jostling that happens, that coming into their warrior energy and stuff like that, I fully understand that and respect that.

And in a lot of aspects, I also kind of encourage it as well because it is healthy part of the way boys grow up. But I also try to very gently offer a different approach, a different thought process to sort of say, you know what? You really actually don't need to put your brother down, because I know you love your brother and your brother knows you love him. Even if you two are at loggerheads all of the time, but he would get so much further if you promoted him and you built him up, and he might even feel good about himself and stronger. Isn't that what we're all here to really do? Isn't it what makes us feel so wonderful? I don't know about you, but it's what makes me feel so good. It's why I do what I do.

Patricia: It's actually what gives me my purpose of living, and for me anyway, that's my purpose in living is to do that. So yes, that resonates greatly.

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah, I agree. And each on their own, everybody can experience their life how they choose. Everybody can choose how they want to represent themselves, whether it's done consciously or unconsciously, it doesn't matter, the consequences still exist. But ultimately speaking, we are here in my opinion, to connect. We are here to empower. We are here to be in service to others, it's just that we're in service to others in slightly different ways. Some of those ways are considered to be good things, some of those ways are considered to be bad things. But ultimately speaking, we're all in service provided that the person who's experiencing that service can in fact see the opportunity that's presented before him or her.

In the same way it took me 20 odd years to see the opportunity put in front of me by my abuser. It took me that long to see the good and remarkable things that come from that. I wouldn't be here talking to you today if that hadn't happened. In the same way, every motivational speaker that has been abused, raped, manipulated in a domestic violence situations. Whether they've lost a limb, been in major accidents, become a paraplegic, doesn't matter what it is, been traumatized and left alone by their loved one, these things happen for a variety of different reasons. I believe they all happen for a reason and that reason is for us to find the opportunity for great personal, spiritual growth.

Patricia: Amen. Yep.

Andrew: Now, if we are the big guy in the room, those opportunities happen naturally. If we're trying to be the big guy in the room, what's happening is we're in a fear driven state, we're unconscious, ego is in control. In trying to be the big guy in the room we often try to do that by putting others down, by stepping over others or stepping on others to get somewhere else. And that is a really big issue because the energy of that is very, very different. And remember, the universe is in fact a mirror, it only reflects back to us what we're putting out.

And I go further and explain to the boys that, if you are the big guy in the room and you're loving people and you're promoting people, and you're helping people and you're in service to the humanity, the universe will then be in service to you. And the long and short of it is, is that if you are trying to be the big guy by putting others down, and controlling others, and bullying others, and teasing others, the universe is going to reflect that back to you also. Just the simple act of trying to be something is a signal to the universe that you were not in fact that thing.

Patricia: Yeah, trying is forcing something to happen and when you're trying to force something to happen, you're actually going against just letting things flow naturally the way they're supposed to happen. I'm a firm believer in that, that you never get anywhere when you try to force something to happen.

Andrew: That's right. That's right. And even if you look at the basic constructs behind the law of attraction, for instance. The whole aspect that by wanting something, the universe goes, that's fine, that's the experience you want to have and it gives you opportunities that leave you wanting. Whereas if you're being something, the universe goes great, that's what you're being, I will give you opportunities for you to experience that being. And it's no different to that big guy in the room. I see this all the time in relationships, male and female relationships predominantly, but even in same couple relationships, same sex relationships, sorry. People that live in the fear driven state are often worried about, they're often full to issues associated with jealousy. They feel like their partner's going to leave them just by being themselves or being independent, which leads to them to then control and dominate, sometimes bully, coerce, manipulate, lie to, all these other sorts of things happen in these type of relationships.

Domestic violence, if there's a domestic violence situation, domestic violence is not only created by fear but it also perpetrates fear in itself. And the fear that then is given to it, is often making it worse, and worse, and worse, and worse, and worse. Now, I've seen many domestic violence situations in people and the way they've had to be seen. And trying to get them to turn that moment around from fear driven to love driven is actually not very easy because it's such an extraordinarily intoxicating emotion. However, it is the response that I believe is necessary. The big guy in the room, if he's truly the big guy in the room, he wouldn't be needing to control or manipulate or dominate. It takes under an enormous amount of courage and enormous amount of bravery to love someone so unconditionally that it doesn't matter what they do, where they go, with whom or whatever, that you still love them.

Patricia: Yeah. And then you don't have that desire to try to force something, to try.

Andrew: Correct.

Patricia: You just are.

Andrew: Correct.

Patricia: ... At that point. Yep.

Andrew: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. And the benefit of that though then as it signals to the universe as well, that everything's okay. The universe doesn't put problems in your place when you're in that space, because the signal is so clear and defined, and absolute. We've had a real issue in Australia lately. We've got this particular broadcaster on national radio who uses a lot, what I refer to as hate speech and specifically promotes in his own unique way, violence against women. And it's really exploded in Australia recently because everybody's just really had enough. And although I never listen to his show because I've never appreciated anything he's had to say, and to be quite honest with you, I'm even surprised that anybody listens to him, but a lot of people do, unfortunately.

And what's happening is people are now boycotting the advertisers that are advertising on his radio show, and all of this was actually triggered, although he's done it time, and time, and time again, it was triggered some comments that he made about the New Zealand Prime Minister and effectively saying that our Prime Minister should give her a couple of backhanders and also should shove a sock down her throat to shut her up. I know, it's appalling. It's unbelievably appalling. Even just hearing myself say it, just makes me cringe.

Patricia: Oh yeah. It just brings on that awful energy. I know what you're saying, yeah.

Andrew: That's right. Now, if that broadcaster was truly the big man in the room that he thinks he is, that he genuinely thinks he is, he wouldn't even need to say any of that. He just wouldn't, he would never need to. In the same way, if a politician thinks that they're the bigger in the room, they'd never need to react. Now, the interesting thing is, that particular politician, Jacinda Ardern's her name, but she's the New Zealand Prime Minister. And she's been in the worldwide press recently for her incredibly compassionate and beautiful approach to the New Zealand massacre that was perpetrated against a full mosque in New Zealand not so long ago. Her response was so compassionate and everything like that, but even her response to this radio broadcaster that was inciting violence against her, she just sort of said, "Look, I'm not going to give that the energy that he wants me to give it because it doesn't deserve it." And she just left it at that.

Patricia: Good for her, good for her. And- [crosstalk 00:29:58].

Andrew: Sorry, go on.

Patricia: Yeah. And I couldn't help but think too, when you were talking about this man, I'm not familiar with who he is, he's probably more, I think in a non-Australia side than he is-

Andrew: Yeah, he is.

Patricia: ... Here in the US side. But I couldn't help but thinking, because of him, look at the awareness that is being drawn to that issue.

Andrew: Yeah, you're hearing me.

Patricia: People are rising and they've had enough. And I think, I don't like his speech or the hate and violence towards women, I don't like that at all, but I do like that people are standing up and saying, enough is enough. We are not going to tolerate this anymore. And it's actually going to be more effective because of that. So I think sometimes the universe does put specific people in power so that we can destroy those systems in which those people are coming from. Does that make sense?

Andrew: Absolutely, complete sense. And it's exactly, I'm so glad you heard that too, that's exactly the point I was trying to make and it was also the point I was making in regards to Donald Trump as well. If someone attacks Donald Trump, what happens? He retaliates back, he fights back, he calls and gets really nasty and dirty. To me, if he was really the big guy in the room, if he was really the president of the world stage, he wouldn't need to do any of that at all. He just wouldn't. Jacinda Ardern, she is the big guy in the room, so to speak, the big woman in the room because she doesn't need to do that. She doesn't need to engage in that demonizing, barbaric, violent kind of bullying approach. To me, it is such a beautiful example of exactly the point I'm trying to make.

Again, we listen to all of these, there's examples throughout modern history and also ancient history, people in the most direst of circumstances not fighting out against their regressors. And what it is, it's about the message that it sends, not necessarily about the result that ends up. We're all so afraid of this one thing called dying, when in fact, all dying is, is the release from our physical world torment. And it sends us back to our beautiful place where we originated from, irrespective of what your belief system is.

But if these particular radio broadcaster really was the big man in the room, if he really was what he says he is, he would never ever need to engage in that sort of discussion. It'd just never even need to cross his mind. And in fact what has happened is, the New Zealand Prime Minister has in fact actually shown that she is a stronger, more remarkable human being than the man that was reaching out trying to attack her and calling her pathetic and a moron and all this sort of stuff.

Patricia: Yeah, I love it just because her actions speak louder in my opinion because they actually are bringing about more change, because of her reaction. And I think also his as well in a different way because it's bringing all of the awareness of all these old systems that need to crumble. In order for those to crumble, they have to be brought to the surface. And I see those in the forms of Donald Trump and the forms of this man. These old systems that are not working anymore have to become to the surface in order for us as a human collective to band together and say, "We are not going to be a part of that anymore."

Andrew: I agree. And I see this as the absolute turning point. This is where I've mentioned a number of times in a range of podcasts, and videos, and events, the energy around the world is changing. There is a change happening as we speak. I believe we're seeing the fall of another empire. I believe, I'm not too sure whether the new empire and everything like that is going to be any bit better, only time will tell. But what I believe is in fact actually happening, we are having a major shift away from the patriarchal, dominant bullying, masculine, controlling society back to a nurturing, divine, feminine, the divine matriarchal type of society that once was in far reaching ancient times.

And I believe that all of these examples, and I think we need to embrace the moments that are presented to us like this broadcast, like the Donald Trump's in the world. We need to embrace them and celebrate them because for exactly as you said, they are the moment which gets us to see that dichotomy and rally against it in the hope of moving humanity forward into a much better time and place.

Patricia: Yep. Yep, exactly. I love it.

Andrew: So that's why I wanted to talk to you today, Patricia, and to all of the wonderful viewers out there about these label, this idea that I have about the big guy in the room. I think we need to have this discussion. I think we really need to get this word out because when someone is dominating someone, I just say to them, "You know what? If you were really the big guy in the room, you wouldn't need to do that." Because the big guy in the room would be compassionate, the big guy in the room would be understanding, the big guy in the room would in fact be choosing love over fear every single time.

And I think that's a really important message that I really want to get out to the world because I think it's time. I think it's time we... I think the world is ready for this sort of stuff. It's the reason why I kicked off my podcast show with you, Patricia, to try and get this type of, a whole range of different messages out there. Because I not only think the world is ready to listen to it, I think the world really needs to listen to it as well, and take on board in their own way and digest it in their own space and time, and then utilize it and promote it in their own lives through their own experiences.

Patricia: Yes. Yes, exactly. I believe you are correct. The world is definitely ready to hear this now. I don't think maybe 10 years ago we were, and if you think even the space we were in 10 years ago, yes, we had the internet, we had other things, but we weren't as advanced as we are now. I don't even think we could have done this podcast 10 years ago. So I really see the beauty and how everything has unrolled within the last several years, and how society is shifting, how technology is shifting, and it's all putting us in the perfect space to share these messages.

Andrew: I agree. Yeah, absolutely. I always say the timing's always perfect.

Patricia: It always is.

Andrew: Look, and I can be a little impatient sometimes, particularly in wanting to reach more people faster so that more lives can change for the better. But I've also got to understand and embrace this infinite, patience idea that timing is absolutely perfect. And look, who knows where all of this is going to go for all of us? One thing I do know is, I do genuinely believe that we all have it within our own hearts at an individual level and at a collective level to move humanity forward. I know we talk about these apocalyptic scenarios and all that sort of stuff, I believe that the true apocalyptic scenario that is right on our door is indifference. And I believe that we need to rise up together, hand in hand, and walk the streets if we have to, to make the message really loud and clear, that the old dominating, bullying, patriarchal rubbish is no longer actually going to be accepted anymore and that in fact the world deserves so much better.

Patricia: Yes. And it takes many courageous people to stand up and do that, and that's what we're hoping to inspire by this podcast.

Andrew: Absolutely. That's exactly right. This isn't about you and I, this is about everybody and everybody finding their own truth and finding their own power to do what they want to do. So thank you so much for joining me today Patricia, and thank you everybody for joining us. If you ever want to reach out to me, you can always do so. You can either email me at Andrew Hackett, so Connect with me on Facebook or Instagram, I'd love to get your messages, love to hear your thoughts and theories about things. And if you've got any great and wonderful ideas that you'd like to share, that you'd like to really get some energy behind and stuff like that, share them with me and if they align with the message that I'm trying to get out there, I'm happy to add my energy to them as well. Thank you again. It's been a fabulous week Patricia, I hope you have a really wonderful week ahead.

Patricia: Yes, thank you Andrew. And I really do hope that our listeners have a wonderful week ahead of you, of us and everybody. Thank you. It's late here and it's been a crazy week, so I think my brain is starting to go to bed already.

Andrew: Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough.

Patricia: All right.

Andrew: Thank you everybody. Have a great week. Much love to you all.

Patricia: Thank you. Goodbye everybody.

Andrew: Thank you for listening to Illimitable Living today. If you want to find out more about living a truly limitless life, then go to If you want to connect with me, search for Andrew Hackett, Australia on Facebook and like my page, or search for Andrew S. Hackett on Instagram and follow me for daily inspirations. I look forward to connecting with you so that we can start you on your own journey towards illimitable living.