Your Spiritual Evolution

The energy across the world is changing, and we are seeing across our political systems and cultural institutions worldwide.

Even the model of capitalism is slowly changing because of this heart-driven change within all of us. Everything we experience as life contributes to one great goal, and that is the destination of our own Spiritual Evolution.

It is unavoidable, whether you believe in it or not. It is happening within you already. Imagine what you can do, if you just decided to consciously follow your own purpose in life.

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Transcript:

Andrew Hackett: Everybody's got the right to believe what they want to believe, but I think if we can all just sit back and breathe for a little and come back to that special moment where we are completely present and still in the space that we are in and allow that to be real, if only for a moment, because in that point in time, in that beautiful moment of presence problems don't exist. Everything is remarkable. The balance in the universe is perfect. Timing is perfect, abundance is available in all those sorts of wonderful, remarkable, unconditionally love constructed type of things. That divine type of love exists in that space.

Good day, and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett, and I'm here to talk about living a life free from fear's restrictive boundaries so that you can not only live a limitless life, but so that you can become truly illimitable.

I am here in sunny Australia talking with my remarkable co-host Patricia Morris as we take you on a journey delving deep into the mysteries of the universe and how we live within it. Join me on a journey towards living a truly limitless life on the Illimitable Living podcast.

Good day, everyone. You're listening to the Illimitable Living podcast, and I'm here with my remarkable co-host Patricia Morris. Good day, Patricia. How are you doing this week?

Patricia Morris: I am doing wonderful. Thank you, Andrew, for asking. I really appreciate that. It's been a great week. Very crazy week, but a wonderful week as well.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, I certainly agree. The weather here is starting to warm up here in Australia, so I'm really looking forward to getting in the water again sometime soon. I've been doing a lot of my walking, and when you live on the beach here and you spend a lot of time walking on the beach, half the year I spend my time just wishing I could get into that beautiful water, but it's a little fresh where I live.

Patricia Morris: Wow, that visual it created in my mind. That just sounds like heaven right now.

Andrew Hackett: I'm very lucky. Very lucky.

Patricia Morris: Yes, you are.

Andrew Hackett: So tell me, what did you want to chat about this week?

Patricia Morris: Well I wanted to talk about spirituality, because I think there's still a little bit of not confusion, but misinformation about what spirituality actually is. Some people think it's a religious thing, and I guess it could be if you are a religious person. I know many religious people consider themselves spiritual people, but I also wanted to explore it from the other side, meaning where it doesn't involve religion.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah.

Patricia Morris: And yeah, and I thought we could probably expand upon that just so we can kind of have a better understanding of what it actually means, no matter where you are in your life.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, look though, I think that's a really good subject to have a chat about. Spirituality's a fascinating thing, and I think it's something that really philosophers have been chewing the cud on over the last several millennia, to be quite honest with you. Spirituality, I don't see spirituality as being synonymous to religion, per se. I see religion... Religion's something that's very structured. It's people or the powers that be within the religious structure determine what is truth and what is not truth, and they enforce that truth to the Nth degree, and I was raised Catholic, and it wasn't until my early to mid teens that I started to see what I was referring to as the hypocrisy of it all.

And we now see enough examples, particularly from the Catholic Church of that hypocrisy, particularly when you're talking about issues associated with child sexual abuse and everything like that within their ranks worldwide across all cultures that they have influenced, and the big issues associated with that. And as you know, that ties into my past as well and my issues that I experienced as a teenager, but I started to realize that although I had lost my faith in the religious aspects of the church, I never really lost my faith in myself or in my own sort of spirituality. Even if it took me 20 odd years to fully understand that spirituality in my own context.

And for me, spirituality is not about God per se. Spirituality is about our place in the universe, and the reason why I phrase it that way, and that's quite deliberate on my behalf to phrase it that way that it is about us and our place in the universe is because I believe that God, if that's the term you want to use, because we all have different ways of expressing the same thing in my opinion.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: If we want to look at God as a raw construct, and all the evidence from all religions that talk about God and all of that all point to this as well if you read between the lines a little bit. God is the universe. God is everything. The air we breathe, the trees we see, the animals we admire and associate with. We are part of that God aspect. We are part of that single source of energy. We are part of that creation. We are part of all of that, and whether we choose to accept it or not, it doesn't change the fact that we are.

Now I'm not here to tell anybody that your beliefs are wrong, because that's not the right way to go about it. Everybody has the right to believe whatever they want to believe, and I'll always and forever honor that right that they have to believe whatever they want to believe. The one thing I like about what I refer to as the spiritual revolution within all of us is that it happens at different times through different means provided by different opportunities and synchronicities, but all of it is part of the great universe and the way the universe operates.

And as I said earlier, spirituality or your spiritual revolution is about you and how you operate within that universal field. And I think once we all start to perhaps grasp a little of this, we start to see a whole range of the particular unique benefits of spirituality as opposed to religion. Religion is very structured, it is very controlled, whereas spirituality is very free, it's very open, it is what I refer to as the true product of unconditional love.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: Unconditional love is free. It is expansive. It is creationary. It is something that empowers and brings joy and happiness, and all that sort of stuff. Control is not a construct of love. That type of manipulation and all that sort of stuff that comes with that rules-based control aspect that a lot of religious organizations have.

Now again, I never have an issue with people who are religious. I really don't. In fact, I seriously honor that within them. Again, that is their choice. It's not my choice, but it is their choice and that's okay. And the reason why I say that is because I believe people who attend the church, people who believe in a particular religion, they generally do so from the right space, and it's that that I honor within them. They do so because they want to share love and light with the world. They want to share the scriptures, their word, whatever it is. That sort of stuff is really, I think really really important, and that stuff is also synonymous to spirituality as a general rule as well.

Irrespective of your religion, whether it's Islam, whether it's Christianity, Catholicism, whatever it is. In my opinion it doesn't actually matter what the label is.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: The background intention to it, the desire to it I believe at the individual level is to connect, to enable, to empower, to help people, and that's what I honor within people who are religious.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: Because-

Patricia Morris: [crosstalk 00:08:47].

Andrew Hackett: ... and I see that all the time. Yes there are elements of hypocrisy both in the organization of the church and also the people who attend the church, but we're all human.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: I see hypocrisy in spirituality all the time as well, like-

Patricia Morris: Oh yes. Definitely.

Andrew Hackett: Particularly when people start talking about levels of spirituality, and "I'm more spiritual than you." You know?

Patricia Morris: Oh, that drives me crazy when people...

Andrew Hackett: It does. That's right. It's one thing I love about JPC is that remarkable comedian who uses that spiritual angle to highlight the hypocrisy in spiritual as well.

Patricia Morris: Yes, to kind of expose it for what it is, but in a way-

Andrew Hackett: Correct.

Patricia Morris: ... that brings humor. Right?

Andrew Hackett: Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and brings joy to the process and stuff, which... I think he is the epitome of using and offering love to call attention to things that perhaps aren't necessarily constructed of love.

Patricia Morris: Exactly.

Andrew Hackett: And which then helps dispel them in their own right, because you know as we all know that love obviously conquers fear. But you know, this spiritual evolution that we're in I think is such an important thing to grasp, because it is so unique. It is so deeply personal to each and every one of us, and my version of spirituality might be completely different to your version of spirituality, Patricia, and it may be different to my mother's version of spirituality, or my friend's version, or my colleague's version, or a stranger's version of spirituality, and that's what makes spirituality so remarkable and so beautiful and worth, in my opinion, seriously celebrating. Because when you're coming from a place of that unconditional love, you suddenly start to see and embrace the importance of also understanding the fact that everybody has a right to believe and think as they choose, and spirituality is a part of that.

I for instance shied away from the word god because of the connotation that was created by the Catholic doctrine that was enforced upon me, and when I was rebelling against that doctrine then I was obviously rebelling against the word god, but I just found a different sort of space to be in that was still the same thing.

I still believed in myself. I believed in the god that was within me, and I believe within the universe that all of us actually make up. I don't believe different religions are even talking about different gods at all. I think we're actually all talking about the same thing.

Patricia Morris: One and the same, yep.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I don't think Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, Mormonism, Judaism, some people even through Buddhism into the mix. I don't think that any one of them have got it exclusively right.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, exactly.

Andrew Hackett: And I think that's an important discussion to have, because it's... Some religions believe in many gods, other religions see that as in fact blasphemous, but again, I come back to the idea of this spiritual evolution and why it's so important, because it is so personal it is in fact as unique as each and every single one of us is.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: There is no single label is what I'm saying that you can attach to what is spiritual and what is not.

Patricia Morris: I love that you say that, Andrew, because I... I don't know if it's like this in Australia, but I've noticed this in the spiritual community here, spirituality in my opinion and the way I see it is that it's free of dogma and doctrine, and sometimes what I see happen is that dogma and doctrine kind of get their way into spirituality, meaning some spiritual people think that in order to be spiritual you have to be a certain way, meaning you have to be vegan, or you have to be wearing crystals, and even be a certain size. If you're overweight when you're spiritual, people believe that you still have a bunch of unhealed stuff that you haven't healed, and that's why you're fat. You're overweight.

There's just so much that can go on with that, and in some ways in my... I put a meme out on Facebook the other day that if we're going to be doing that in spirituality we might as well go back to religion, because religion tells you all those things how you should do, and spirituality is supposed to be the exact opposite of that, and that's how I see it. And I love that you said all of what you said, because I've always believed it as honoring where people are at without enforcing what you believe onto other people. That's what my definition of spirituality is anyway, and what resonates with me.

Andrew Hackett: I love it.

Patricia Morris: And without believing that I have it right, because you know what? We evolve. What I believe right now to be true for me may change in a year or two just based upon my own growth, based upon my own evolution, and that's a good thing actually, because I think when we come from a background of religion like I do and I know you did, Andrew, pretty much every religion out there believes that they are the true religion.

Andrew Hackett: True.

Patricia Morris: And so that gets conditioned in our minds to believe that we are the true religion. We know what's right, we know we're all going to go to heaven, everybody else is going to hell unless they believe this specific way, and I think because we've been conditioned that way for basically millennia, it can find its way sometimes into spirituality where if you believe, "Oh you're not going to evolve unless you're a specific way," and there are certain universal truths, so I'm not putting down the universal truths. I'm trying to draw life to the aspects of spirituality that really are more dogmatic, so to speak.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, look, and I love that way you've put that too. I completely agree. The ego within each of us actually wants to be right. The ego within us wants to say that I'm right and you're wrong, and it's the ego within both the individual and the collective that assigns to the religious doctrine that says, "No, my religion is right and your religion is wrong." When you come to spirituality, the one mainstay of spirituality is to understand that there is in fact actually no pure truths. Truth is completely subjective in a physical world context.

And yes, you're right, there are some universal truths, or what I refer to as universal laws, and yes those universal laws happen. They construct the world, the experience, the life that we live in. Whether we see them, expect them or understand them or not. Even if we're completely unconscious to them they still work.

Patricia Morris: Uh-huh (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: But when we start to break down the spiritual versus practical aspect, I think it's really important to understand that we do live in two realms. We are a spiritual being living in a physical realm, and so we have that flow-through from the spiritual realm, but we also have the need to be practical. And religions are based on constructed ideals by people who were in power at the time, and they change over time just as we do as individuals. And what I believe now is very, very different to what I was believing 10 years ago, even more so incredibly different than what I was believing 20, 25 years ago.

And this is part of the whole part, the trigger associated with an individual spiritual evolution is appointing time that we perhaps rather crudely in a limited human understanding of the sense of the word we refer to as a label as our awakening.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: And I remember very, very clearly my awakening. When it happened, what happened as a result of that, the state that I was in for a number of days. It was like I was completely high as a kite, and not being very practical at all in that period of time. But that soon passed once the message was received loud and clear, and from that grew from that was my path, the clarification around my path, why I'm here, what I'm destined yet to do. All of that is really clear to me now, but that awakening that we experience is very, very different for different people, and it is triggered by very different things.

For some people, an awakening, that spiritual evolution is triggered by a coming to Jesus moment, or a finding God moment, or a religious experience that a lot of us might turn around and go, "Well no, that's religion." And that's fine. Again, I will never judge anybody for whatever they want to believe. Even if their beliefs are considered to be either comp wacky or crazy. Trust me, I've got some pretty wide-ranging beliefs that people think I'm probably nuts about as well. But you know. So-

Patricia Morris: Yes, it goes both ways. Right?

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, and it's an interesting thing. So I get on my Facebook account and on my Instagram account and stuff I get a lot of messages from a lot of people, and I find it fascinating. I've got people that are connecting with my message that have traditional cultural beliefs aligned with... They're Muslim, or Hindu as well. I've got J Dubs, I've got Mormons, I've got Catholics, I've got Christians, I've got people that don't assign to any of those beliefs. I've got a lot of Buddhist people that assign their way of life more to the Buddhist teachings.

Again, the thing I love about it all is we seem to get along beautifully with the knowing and understanding that everybody's got a right to believe what they want to believe. And nobody's throwing it down anybody's throat at all. Nobody's arguing or carrying on or throwing mud, because that's how we want to represent ourselves, and that's part of this spiritual evolution.

I don't necessarily agree with all of the aspects of Catholicism or the Jehovah's Witness or even aspects of Hinduism and stuff.

Patricia Morris: Oh yeah.

Andrew Hackett: And that's okay as well, but I seriously honor and respect their right to believe in that sort of stuff because it's what brings them peace. It's what helps them on their individual spiritual journey.

Patricia Morris: Yes, yes.

Andrew Hackett: And to me that's a beautiful thing. Anything that promotes love. Even if some people need structure around how to promote that love and how to experience that love, if it's promoting love over fear, over anger, over frustration, over judgment, then to me that's got to be a better message than the message that we are seeing and hearing all the time through the very many other means.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: And in a lot of aspects I think that's really, really important. That's why I say spirituality is not, it's not a religious thing. It's about understanding and being present with who we are and what our role is in this beautiful universe that we live in. To me, that's the true connection. That's the sweet spot right there.

Patricia Morris: One beautiful thing about spirituality that I love is that if we can put ourselves in that place of honoring where people are at without enforcing what our own beliefs are onto the other person or even onto society as a whole, it opens us up to so much more much richer life, in my opinion. When we're closed off, and this is just my own experience, growing up in the religion that I did, people tend to kind of stick to their own, and I see that sometimes too in the spiritual community as well. They kind of stick to their own and don't really branch out, and I think we're denying ourselves a lot when we do that, because we're not exposing ourselves to other people and other ways of living, other cultures, other beliefs, other perspectives. If we constantly just surround ourselves with people who are just like us, then how are we going to grow?

I mean it's wonderful being around people like ourselves because we can completely be ourselves and not worry that they're judging us or anything like that, but it's also nice to get out of that comfort zone as well, because we never grow in our comfort zone, or at least we don't grow as much as we could I think if we stay in that comfort zone. Does that make sense?

Andrew Hackett: It makes completely sense.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: It certainly does, yes.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. And look, again, this is what's so important about it all is we need to live in a space that works for us. We need to know each other absolutely, we need to connect with each other absolutely, but isn't true connection with others actually first found through connections within ourselves?

And when we're looking at this spiritual evolution and we're looking at moving forward on whatever path we want to undertake, a lot of that's done and understood through the lessons, the stories, the teachings from other areas. Although there are some aspects of all those religions I mentioned earlier that I don't necessarily agree with, there's also a lot of the aspects within those religions that I fundamentally do believe in.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: The work that I do, I'm really, really clear with people it's completely non-denominational. And the fundamental reason behind that decision is quite simply one, I don't assign to any particular denomination, so if I was being denominational I would need to, and I can't. I just don't, because I don't believe any one particular religion has got it completely right.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: Look, in the same way I know you don't believe that I've got it completely right in all aspects either.

Patricia Morris: I don't think anybody does.

Andrew Hackett: Correct. That's exactly right.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: I don't think anybody can.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: But there are a lot of things that, you know, in Hinduism and even in the Muslim teachings and Buddhism, Judaism, Catholicism, and all those sorts of stuff. There's a lot of remarkable stuff in there.

Patricia Morris: Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: And although it is religious by definition, I believe that spirituality is broader than that. Spirituality is at a soul to soul sort of level. It's that really gentle, intimate moment when you are looking deep within another person's eyes, when you've got that fixed gaze upon each other where one, the iris of one eye just explores the iris of the other eye, and to me that's where that old adage the eyes are the windows of the soul really comes to play, because it's at that moment that you're present, and the energies of those two souls are really coming together as one.

Even if it's not a sexual thing or it's not a physically intimate thing, it can certainly be a spirituality intimate thing, and to me that's the really beautiful moment that we seriously seek in the connection that we are with each other.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: That to me is where pure spirituality really comes together. It's not in chanting and prayers and all that sort of stuff.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: But if it is for you, that's okay, because that's just your way of finding that connection.

Patricia Morris: Yep. Yeah, it is.

Andrew Hackett: For me, connection is sitting in front of someone with their hands in your hands and looking into their soul.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: And just being really clear with them that it's okay to just be themselves.

Patricia Morris: Be who you are. Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: I mean, completely authentically with no barriers up or whatever. In that moment you are safe and you're okay and I love you. I don't care what comes my way; I'm going to love it as well. And I think in that moment beautiful things can really start to happen, because it is a very, very rare moment that we then start to soon cherish, because we soon start to see the possibilities that lie within.

Patricia Morris: Yes, yes. And I love what you said, because basically that's kind of how I feel about it too is that for me being spiritual also means being that safe place for people to feel comfortable with, irregardless of what they believe in, what their belief system is. I don't care what a person's belief system is. My definition of spirituality is being a safe place for them to feel like they can talk to me about anything, and they're not going to worry about being judged. They're not going to worry about any kind of hate thrown their way or fear thrown their way or anything like that.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, yeah.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, so I think you just basically said exactly that, so I love that. I love that.

Andrew Hackett: And look, I just want to say, and I talk about this in the back end of my book Free From Fear. It's the last chapter I believe that talks about it, before you run off to save the world. I'm really not a fan of evangelism, and the reason why, it's not because I'm not a fan of people preaching the word of God, I'm not a fan of people sharing their opinions and ideas. Hey, I'm on this podcast right now sharing my own. So that would be very hypocritical of me, but the one thing I am very, very strongly a fan of is understanding that just because you have a set of beliefs doesn't mean someone else's beliefs are wrong.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: Everybody has a right to believe what they want to believe. Everybody has a right to act and think how they want to believe. Even if their actions have consequences, all actions, all choices have consequences. They still have a right to it, and we have laws in place and everything like that that govern us, and we have policemen and various other that are there to police those rules and those laws. I'm not talking about that sort of stuff.

I'm talking about something that's much, much deeper. Something that's a lot more personal for all of us, and I think it's important that we all know and understand this, because I think it's really, really important for us to understand the individuality of the spiritual evolution that happens within a person, and what that means for a person.

If someone wants to have a different set of beliefs, let them have a different set of beliefs. Honor them for that. They've got their right to have that different set of beliefs, and if we are going to evangelize, if we are going to stand up on our soapbox and say to everybody, "You've got to believe in this," then to be quite honest with you, it's not coming from a place of love, because that's the ego talking.

The ego evangelizes, because remember the ego wants to be right. The soul doesn't need to be right. The soul knows that there is no inherent right or wrong. The souls knows that there is no specific truth to the individual, because truth is completely subjective based on the individual's life experience, understandings, beliefs, cultures, all those sorts of things. The soul doesn't need to be right. The ego needs to be right. And just in listening to that statement, we can understand the very difference in the way that that feels.

The ego wants to control, the ego wants to set these boundaries, and if you step outside of those boundaries well you're going to be damned to hell.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: The soul doesn't think along those lines. The soul just wants to love unconditionally with passion and understanding, and I believe that if we really want to take this spiritual evolution to the next level it is never ever about evangelism. It is never ever about saying, "Your religion is wrong. My way of thinking is right."

Patricia Morris: Yeah, yeah.

Andrew Hackett: Because that's just... It's never going to work.

Patricia Morris: Yeah. And along those lines, Andrew, I wanted to ask you, would you agree that most belief systems out there actually have more in common than we all think? For instance, I believe that we pretty much are all believing the same thing but it's in a different way, and maybe even in a different approach. But when you boil it all down, it really is almost the same thing in many ways but just different approaches of doing it. Would you agree with that?

Andrew Hackett: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah. Yeah, look, I would absolutely, Patricia. 100%.

Patricia Morris: So really we're all right in some ways. You know?

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, look, again, I don't think we should ever get caught up in right or wrong.

Patricia Morris: Sure, sure.

Andrew Hackett: I've always said that I believe we're all talking about the same stuff, we're just using different language. Different cultural interpretations.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: We're expressing it differently through different song and different dance and different connections. I believe it is all, not necessarily a one god, because that even creates an aspect or an interpretation of some type of separateness. I don't believe you can only access God through talking through a church for instance, despite the fact some religions say that that's the case.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: I strongly believe that every single one of us is God.

Patricia Morris: Yep.

Andrew Hackett: We are all God. In fact, are religion texts and stuff even say that quite clearly.

Patricia Morris: They do.

Andrew Hackett: We talk about this idea we need to pray to God. I say we need to celebrate the god that's within us. We need to celebrate our connection. That's why I talk about spirituality, and the spiritual is actually about understanding and being present with ourselves and our role within the universe and how we all interact with it all, because I believe God created life so that life could express itself as life's self.

Patricia Morris: Yes. That is very, very, very true.

Andrew Hackett: And isn't that what we're all doing? Even those that are the perpetrators, even those that are committing acts of atrocity and harming others, it's still life portraying life as life's self. It's this whole aspect of the ultimate free will. And some people say we don't really have free will, we've got the illusion of free will. Well to be quite honest with you, actually I disagree.

Patricia Morris: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: I think the ego wants us to think we have the illusion of free will, because in that case the ego in fact has control over us, its host.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: But true unconditional love doesn't have boundaries. It doesn't have rules. It doesn't have doctrines. It doesn't evangelize.

Patricia Morris: It doesn't have dogma. Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andrew Hackett: It needs for nothing. And I just think that's a fundamental aspect or something that we can truly all believe in if we so choose.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, yeah. Exactly.

Andrew Hackett: Because in that space, even when someone does something wrong we can still find a space for compassion over judgment.

Patricia Morris: Absolutely.

Andrew Hackett: Judgment's only going to make whatever's wrong even worse.

Patricia Morris: Exactly. It's just going to make it grow bigger and feed it.

Andrew Hackett: Correct, yeah that's exactly right, but if we're compassionate and we understand, and through that understanding we grow ourselves, we learn and we develop, that's ultimately what the spiritual evolution is all about. It's about us evolving.

I believe this is the fundamental reason why we incarnate back into different bodies over and over and over again. It's to be able to look at these different perspectives, experience them through different cultures and different bodies and different locations, and look, maybe even different worlds, and understand that this is what life is all about.

I'm not the only person in the world that believes in reincarnation. From what I understand, actual the vast majority of the world believe in reincarnation. It's the western doctrines and stuff that limit it to a particular type of belief system, and that's okay. If people want to do that, that's totally fine.

Everybody's got the right to believe what they want to believe, but I think if we can all just sit back and breathe for a little and come back to that special moment where we are completely present and still in the space that we are in and allow that to be real, if only for a moment, because in that point in time, in that beautiful moment of presence problems don't exist. Everything is remarkable. The balance in the universe is perfect. Timing is perfect, abundance is available in all those sorts of wonderful, remarkable, unconditionally love constructed type of things. That divine type of love exists in that space. And I believe in that space that's where healing occurs, both for the individual and also for the collective.

Patricia Morris: That was... I wish you could see my huge grin over here. I think you were channeling that information, because no, it was so beautifully stated that I just... Yeah, thank you for that. I just was just enjoying what you were saying immensely.

Andrew Hackett: And thank you for your connection with it as well, Patricia.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, yeah. That was beautiful. Perfectly said.

Andrew Hackett: So just to wrap it all up, again, I don't believe that there is a single way of thinking. I don't think there is a single way of being, either. I think humans or man has constructed this ideal that if we have rules and doctrines and things that we must follow then it's just easier to control people. And look, some people, albeit unconsciously, are happy with being controlled, and that's completely okay as well. I'll always respect everybody's right to experience and express life however they choose, but I just do believe that although it's easier to control people through fear, there is always a much better result created by empowering people through love.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, yeah. And whether you're religious or not, if you think of the Jesus aspect, I am a Jesus freak but not in a religious aspect. I'm a Jesus freak in the aspect that he embodies everything that you just said.

Andrew Hackett: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yep.

Patricia Morris: And he embodied that in his own life that is depicted in the Bible.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah.

Patricia Morris: Yeah, so if you're religious you can resonate with that, and if you're not, just see him as a wonderful great teacher and healer, and he was in every aspect. He didn't go around judging people, he didn't go around enforcing anything on people, he just taught through love.

Andrew Hackett: And look, even in his darkest moment, even during his crucifixion he was turning the other cheek and offering love into the moment. And it's the same with Buddha and Krishna and all those other remarkable people. We've even got a remarkable human on this planet called Eckhart Tolle who is using the same language. It's just it's a different time, it's a different period, and there's different cultural machinations at work, and I think you see these same stories, these same teachings and everything in ancient philosophies as well. Even well before Jesus's time. And again, the universe, the world, God, whatever you want to call it, it has got hundreds of us, if not thousands of us, if maybe not millions of us all saying the same thing.

I have people come to me all the time saying, "Oh, such and such said this too." And I always say, "That's really awesome." Oh, I'm glad that they are, because there could be millions of me out there all trying to get their word out in their own unique way, and there still won't be enough of us to try and turn that tide, to create this collective spiritual revolution from the individual iterations of each spiritual evolution, and I think this is really, really important at this point in time.

Ministers, pastors, priests, spiritualists, rabbis, you name it. They all are saying the same thing, just in their own different and unique little way. And yes, some of them are constrained by certain overarching doctrines. And look, again, in my opinion it doesn't detract from the individual's desire to spread the word of love as I call it, because I think that is ultimately what is really, really important. And not everybody's going to connect or align with the way that I'm doing it.

Patricia Morris: Yes.

Andrew Hackett: In the same way they may not connect with and align with the way that you're doing it, or-

Patricia Morris: The way I'm doing it. Yep. Or anybody else.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah. Correct, and that's exactly right, and that's why it needs to be said by so many different versions of life, so that all the other versions of life can listen to it in their own particular little way, because it is important that the word gets out, but it is also important we don't evangelize, because I believe evangelism is in fact an act of judgment, saying, "My way is better than your way."

Patricia Morris: Exactly. And you're not enforcing your opinion on anybody either, Andrew. It's kind of funny when you said that earlier that you're not evangelizing on this podcast, because I agree, you're not. I think people are voluntarily listening. It's when we are invading other people's space, or invading other people's belief systems and being more... Oh my goodness, the word just left me. Being very aggressive that way, I should say.

Andrew Hackett: Mm-hmm (affirmative), yeah.

Patricia Morris: We're not coming from an aggressive standpoint. I think that's the difference.

Andrew Hackett: And that's a very deliberate choice on my behalf for exactly that reason. My thought process is all I'm trying to do is send out the signal, and those who want to pick it up and listen to that signal, that's awesome. I honor that within you as much as I honor it for those that don't want to pick up and listen to the signal, because again, this is never about me saying you've got to do this a particular way. This is just me saying, "These are my thoughts, these are my beliefs, this is a different perspective that I offer the world." And only in the hope...

This is what I also say. I don't expect my truth to be your truth. I only offer my perspective in the hope that you will find your own truth, and you will honor that truth within yourself. To me, that's ultimately all I'm trying to do.

So thank you so much everybody. I hope you've really enjoyed this discussion as much as I have, and I really, really value the time that you are spending with me, and I really honor you for that, because again, all I want is I want you to find your truth whatever that may be. And I don't care if that truth is the complete opposite to my truth. All I care about is that you have the courage to explore your truth and listen to me, listen to Patricia, listen to other people. Read both modern and ancient texts.

That's all I've done to try and create what I believe to be a reasonably balanced perspective, and ultimately speaking, I think it's important for all of us to do that in our own particular little way, and I'll always encourage that with people, and that's why I write my books, because that works for some people, but other people want videos. 

In the same way I say to people, "Go and read Eckhart Tolle's books. Go and read Wayne Dyer's books. Go and read the different religious texts that are out there as well." Do your own research. Do your own exploration, and honor that within you, because I think at the other end of that that is where that spiritual evolution happens within a person. I think it's the reason why we're all so unique, it's because we've all got different stories to tell, and I believe those different stories help us shape our own truth. I think that's ultimately what's really important.

So thank you very much for coming today, and thank you so much for joining us, Patricia. Loved having you along.

Patricia Morris: Yes, thank you very much. I always enjoy this. This is always the highlight of my week recording with you, Andrew. Connecting with you, and connecting with our listeners.

Andrew Hackett: The highlight for me too, so thank you so much.

Patricia Morris: Thank you. Goodbye.

Andrew Hackett: Thank you for listening to Illimitable Living today. If you want to find out more about living a truly limitless life, then go to andrewhackett.com.au. If you want to connect with me, search for Andrew Hackett Australia on Facebook and like my page, or search for Andrew S Hackett on Instagram and follow me for daily inspirations. I look forward to connecting with you so that we can start you on your own journey towards illimitable living.