The Love and Fear Dichotomy

Every Life Experience we have starts with the Love and Fear Dichotomy.

Join us today as we explore what it is and why it is important in your day to day life.

The mastery of this universal law, will not only set you free but it will make you illimitable.

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Andrew Hackett: Good day, and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett and I'm here to
talk to you about everything that the world needs to discuss about living a life
free from fear's restrictive boundaries, so that you can not only live a limitless
life, but so that you can become truly illimitable. I am here from sunny Australia
talking with my remarkable cohost, Patricia Morris, who has her own highly
successful podcast series delving into the mysteries of the universe and how we
live within it.
Hello, everybody, and welcome to Illimitable Living. I'm Andrew Hackett, and I'm
here with the remarkable Patricia Morris to talk to you about a whole range of
subjects that ultimately all come down to living a life without limits. Patricia,
good morning. It's fabulous to talk to you again. How are you doing?
Patricia Morris: I am doing wonderful. Thank you so much for having me today, Andrew. I'm so excited to be here and to be doing this venture with you.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah, me too, absolutely, and I know people are certainly going to get a lot out
of it as we work from subject to subject. What did you want to talk about today?
What subjects should we cover off today?

Patricia Morris: Well, I've been thinking a lot about the subject of the love and fear dichotomy.
I've read your first book, and you do an excellent job of talking about what the
love and fear dichotomy is, but I think our listeners would probably want to
know exactly what that is, what that means, why is it important to them, why
do they even need to know about it, so can we start off on that note, and you
can give a little explanation on that?

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Look, that's a great subject, too, because the love and fear
dichotomy is really the core of everything that I teach, and there's very good
reason for that, because I believe that everything we experience in life all comes
down to either love or fear, so I say that every thought, every feeling, and every
choice we make it based on one or two things, and those two things are either
love or fear, and look, what I mean by that, I'm not talking about love in the
romantic sense of the word. I'm not talking about love in a teenage kind of
lovey-dovey type of way. What I'm talking about, I'm talking about divine love.
I'm talking about the type of love that is universal. Love that represents
everything that is fabulous in our life, everything that is positive, everything,
things like peace and happiness and joy and servitude and compassion, all of
these wonderful things that we associate as being perhaps provided by the
universe, provided by God, wherever your belief system is, and the love aspect
is something that enables.
We think about love and fear. Love is everything that is positive. Fear is
everything that is negative, so fear is things like guilt and shame, anger,
judgment, a lack of compassion. Fear is like that schoolyard bully, the coward
with no confidence. The fear aspect is what shuts us down, is what in fact limits
us, and what I'm trying to do by breaking everything down to its simplest, rawest forms, is to explain to people how simple this can be, that everything in
life does in fact actually does come down to either love of fear. Now, the
exciting thing about that is the realization that I had many years ago that we can
in fact choose, in any given moment, which our life experience is based on. We
can choose love, and we can choose it through the thoughts that we have, the
feelings that they create, and the actions that we take, and the benefit of all of
that is the way that the universe then responds.
Now, ultimately, a lot of this comes down to the way we create life, the way we
manifest things in our life, and we're all very good at manifesting. In fact, I
believe we're all masters at manifesting. It just so happens to be that we're
actually in fact, most of us, manufacturing or manifesting an unhappy life,
manifesting a life that is leaving us wanting and unfulfilled, and we have this
desire to lead a better life, we have this desire to be more successful in
whatever that format is, whatever success means to you in my opinion is
actually irrelevant, because whatever success means to you is important to you,
and it may not be to someone else and that's okay, but the love and fear
dichotomy is a really, really important thing to understand at the ground level
because it ultimately is the starting point that sets the intention for everything
we experience.

Patricia Morris: Okay. With that, though, I'm one of those people who can understand things a little bit easier if there's an example given, so would you have an example
maybe in your own life or maybe a client's life where they were maybe in a
place of fear, and then once they chose love, things changed for them, or
maybe, whatever example that pops into your mind, to kind of help listeners
connect in their minds exactly what this all means?

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Many, many, many examples, both from my clients that I work with,
but even in my own life. I lived my life for some many, many years unhappy,
very unhappy, very disconnected, although at the time I probably thought I was
giving it the best from what I had. It took me a number of years to realize that in
fact there was so much more available to me. A lot of this stemmed from the
sexual abuse I experienced as a teenager, and the path that that sent me on in
regards to a path filled with guilt and shame, self-judgment, self-loathing, and a
lot of that sent me on a bit of a downward spiral to effectively live most of my
life through the bottom of a bottle, which never helps, of course.
But when I started to self-evaluate, started to look deeper within myself, and
this was well over 10 years ago now, I started to realize that not only was there
a little bit more going on, but in fact, a lot of what I was experiencing was in fact
in direct relation to the thoughts that I was having, and I sat back and I started
to think, "Well, if we ... " Controlling itself is a myth. There is no such thing as
control, however, I thought, "THere's got to be something that we have some
control over," and I believe what we have control over is our thoughts. We have
control over our own feelings. We have control over our own actions. Now, a lot
of people might think, "Well, that's ridiculous. Of course you can't control your thoughts or your feelings," but I say you can because they are representative of
who we are, and ultimately, we talk about having freewill and stuff, ultimately
freewill is purely based around what we can in fact influence and control, which
is only ever about us and never, ever about anyone else.
So I started delving deeper into what was going on for me, and started to realize
that in any given moment, we have this choice, and I initially referred to it as a
whole bunch of different things apart from just as simple as the love and fear
dichotomy. I created all sorts of, call it labels for it, but when I started to break it
all down, I realized it all came down to the simple construct of things that were
constructed by love or things that were constructed by fear. Now in my life, I
was ruled by fear. I was ruled by fear's foot soldier, the ego, and my ego was
constantly putting me down, constantly putting limitations on me, constantly
saying, "I can't do this and I can't do that," or, "I'm no good for this," or, "I'm no
good for that."
A lot of that came from my abuse event, but again, we don't necessarily need an
abuse event, as it can come from personal trauma, it can come from just a
lifetime of people not believing in you, and the ego gets a hold of this and runs
with it because the ego needs us to stay in this fear-driven state. The ego needs
us to belong in this disconnected way because it gives the ego strength and
power. So I started to change the way I was thinking. I started to change the
way I was operating in a day to day way, and started to realize that instead of
thinking, "I can't do this," I needed to start thinking, "How can I do this?" And
they were all very subtle little changes.
I suddenly started to realize instead of choosing a negative in any given
scenario, why not choose a positive? So I started to look at the things of my
judgment, for instance, my judgment of others and my judgment of myself as
well, in a large part, and look, my judgment of myself was more based around
the fact that I didn't feel like I was worth being loved. I didn't feel like I was
worth loving. And look, this in and of itself is a very, very common thing
amongst a vast majority of the population in my opinion. Yeah. Absolutely. It's
certainly stronger in some of us than it is in others, but the love and fear
dichotomy for me was about looking at these negatives that are constantly
reoccurring in our life and trying to analyze and find positives that we can come
from that, so I started to look at my belief system and I started to realize, okay,
for instance, I might be particularly judgmental about people driving in traffic.
A very common thing. They're either not driving fast enough, they're not driving
with enough foresight to know where they're going to need to get to, and
therefore they need to be in whatever lane they need to be in, and they may
not be paying attention, all these little things can irritate us and really get under
our skin, particularly if we spend a lot of time in traffic, and me being the type of
driver that I am, I just want to get to where I'm trying to get to so I can get on
with what I'm trying to get on with, but I started to sit back and think, I'm
thinking about this all wrong, because I'm not affecting the person in the traffic that I'm grumpy at. I'm not affecting anybody else at all. All I'm doing is affecting
my own life. I'm affecting my life experience and creating one filled with anger
and resentment and judgment and all that sort of stuff, and I thought, "Well,
surely I have control over that. Surely if I've got control over one thing in the
world, it's got to be how I feel about things."
So I started to analyze it further and I started to realize that I could see this
opportunity as something that is in fact an opportunity for growth. It's an
opportunity for personal evolution, and that I shouldn't be angry at the person. I
don't know what's going on with the person in the car or why they may not be
paying attention. Who knows? Maybe they've had a really, really bad day and
they've just got their mind focused on the loss of a loved one or an experience,
a negative experience they've had to deal with in the office. Who am I to judge
someone else for what they are doing when I myself am not perfect in any way,
shape, or form in regards to how I'm acting?
So the love and fear dichotomy, I could either choose judgment or I could
perhaps choose compassion. I could choose anger or I could choose peace. I
know it's a really simple thing, but it's a funny thing. As soon as I started
choosing love-based constructs, even in the vehicle, in my vehicle, I started to
say, "You know what? It doesn't matter. When I get there, I'm going to get there
precisely when I do get there, no matter which way I go." What I can do, though,
is I can enjoy the process of getting there, rather than being angry and resentful
for someone else not doing something exactly the way I want to do it. It was all
based in the rules in my head.
I had these rules in my head that when you drive a car, you should just get on
with it, whereas of course, other people might have rules in their head that
when you jump in a car, you can enjoy the surrounding environment around
you, or you can get some music on and have a bit of a boogie and a dance. We
all like to do that, you know what I mean? So we probably don't like to be seen
doing it for some strange reason because we might think we look a bit silly but
it's okay, I'm getting used to people seeing me dancing and being silly in the car.
Patricia Morris: Right. I don't care either anymore. You get to a certain age where you just do what you want to do and you don't care what people think anymore.
Andrew Hackett: Bingo. That's exactly right. I totally get it. In fact, even the sillier you can be, the better, really.

Patricia Morris: Yes.
Andrew Hackett: But a lot of this is about choice and a lot of this is about choosing the right
things, and for me, it was about choosing not to get stressed out about how
things are playing out around me, and you know the funniest thing? What
played out around me then stopped stressing me out. I use this analogy and I
talk about this in my book, Free From Fear, when I jump in the car, and I do a lot of travel in the car because I'm always going to different places and different
cities and all that sort of stuff to do what I do, if I have a preconceived deadline
about when I should get somewhere, I often get slowed down and I get red
lights. However, if-

Patricia Morris: Why is that? You're so right. So true.
Andrew Hackett: What we're doing is the universe is giving us what we're focusing on and what
we're focusing on is being held up, being slowed down, being delayed. That's
what we're focusing on and the universe delivers it in spades.

Patricia Morris: Yeah. It's very true.
Andrew Hackett: Whereas if I just relax into it, I put an audiobook on, maybe put some music on
and stuff, and I just relax into my drive and I don't care when I get there, I just
know I'll get there safely and in one piece, I don't get red lights. I get green
lights. I don't get people holding me up. I get people getting on with it. It's just a
really good analogy of what we focus on manifests.

Patricia Morris: Yes. That just brought to mind, because I'm always one of those people who
seems to be chronically late, right? Especially if it's an important meeting. No, I
wouldn't say always chronically late, but it always seems to be when I am
running late somewhere, I get in the car and I'm feeling anxious, I'm like, "Oh,
I've got to be there in 10 minutes and I know it takes 20 minutes to get there,"
and then you're just kind of stressed because you're like, "Oh, that other person
waiting on me is going to be upset," and so then of course, that's when you get
behind all the slow people and all the people that will not get out of your way
when you're trying to get somewhere faster, so I loved how you said that
because it is very, very true.
If we can let go of that expectation of, "I need to be here in a certain amount of
time," if we let go of that expectation and just enjoy the ride or enjoy the music
or whatever it is that we are enjoying, the universe is actually going to make it
so that all those slow drivers don't get put in your way. Yeah.

Andrew Hackett: Yep. And ultimately speaking, the reality of it is they're still there, they're still on
the road. The physical aspect of that doesn't change. What's ultimately changing
is our perception of what is happening around us, and this is why I talk about we
can choose it any time. We can choose love-based constructs over fear-based
constructs in any moment. The power is within us to make that choice. All I'm
trying to do is to reeducate people. We all knew this. We were all born into this
type of thought process. When we are born, we are born into a love-based life.
We learn a fear-based life through our environment, through our parents, our
siblings, our peers, people at school, all that sort of stuff, that's what we learn,
and I believe the older we get without addressing it, the more we learn about
living a life in a fear-based way because corporations use fear to sell products to us. The government uses fear to effectively control us and make us reliant on
their services.
We look at churches. Churches use fear all of the time. The churches talk about
God being a judgmental god, and if we don't tow the line and do what we
should be doing and all that sort of stuff, God is going to serve us to eternal
damnation. Personally, I've got no problem with anybody's religious beliefs.
Everybody has got the right to choose whatever they want to choose. But I just
don't understand that. I don't understand that whole fear-based God approach,
because I was always brought up with the idea that God is love, and if God is
love, God's not choosing love. God doesn't need to choose love. God is love, and
therefore, why would God be judgmental? Judgment isn't an aspect of love. It's
not a construct of love at all. Judgment is a construct of fear.
So we're taught this. We're taught it through our schools, we're taught it
through television and media. I don't know about you, but when I grew up and
we had a major storm happen, like a major rain event, for instance, we were
just told there was rain coming, if we were told at all. Now we have rain
happening for a day and every media outlet all across the country, it's like
Armageddon is arriving. "Batten down the hatches. Rain is coming." Okay. All
right. It's like when we, in Australia, we get 40 degree days in Australia all the
time in summer. It's a common thing about summer. 40 degree days, which for
the listeners in the world who use fahrenheit, that's over 100 degrees
fahrenheit, so 38 degree is hot for us. 100 degrees is hot for you guys, of course,
as well.
But we get temperatures 40, 43, 46, even 49, and when we get those days, and
of course it happens in a number of weeks over summer for us, the media
comes out like it is some, literally it's going to cleanse the earth of humans. It is
made to sound that big a horrific event, when of course it happens every
summer. It's been happening every summer for my 45 years of long life, and
again, it's all about using fear to sell advertising, to sell a product or to sell a
story, and all I'm saying is that we don't need to live like that anymore. It
doesn't serve us at all as individuals, and I just hope in making people aware of
the love and fear dichotomy, and the fact that we have a choice in any moment
of which we choose, then the life that comes from that, the life that is created
just by that simple choice is based on either love or based on either fear.
Now, I don't know about you Patricia, but I certainly want a life based on love,
an abundance of happiness and joy and success, and possibilities and growth
and evolution. That's what I want. I don't want a life based on fear-based
control, hate, anger, judgment, racism, sexism. To me, all of that is part of that
fear-based life that we are almost told is just a way of life. We have to almost
accept it.

Patricia Morris: Yes, and we don't have to accept it. That's the thing that I find so extraordinary
in all of this is we don't have to accept it because I know at least for me, and I'm just speaking from my own experience, is you finally get to a place in life where
you're tired of being angry all the time. You're tired of being afraid all the time.
You're tired of being unhappy. You're tired of being depressed and anxious,
whatever those emotions may be, at least for me, that's how it was. I got to a
point where I'm like, "There's got to be more to life than this," all these ways
I've been conditioned to feel about myself, and to feel about others. There's got
to be more to life than this. That was when my awakening happened when I just
finally got to the end and I was like, "You know what? There's got to be more to
life than this."
It was really interesting that you said that because it is true. We don't have to
choose that anymore. We can change it. It doesn't have to be that way.
Andrew Hackett: I completely agree, and in fact, every single one of my clients that come to me
seeking help, it's not that they can't do it themselves, because everybody can do
it themselves and that's not the point, it's just they all get to this point where
they say, "I've just had a realization that I actually don't want to live like this
anymore." They may not have come up with the realization that they don't have
to live like that anymore, but they've come up with the realization they don't
want to anymore, and they reach out and say, "How do I stop this? This is
what's happening for me." They're either in an ongoing unhappy relationship,
they're either unhappy at work, they can't find love in their life, they can't find
meaning or purpose in their life, they've got nothing to get excited and get out
of bed for in the morning, all of these sorts of things are a combination of
effectively what everybody is feeling.
There is a common theme for me in my clientele, so most of my clientele are 40
years plus. The vast majority of them are female, and I mean by a long shot, and
it's not that men are any happier or anything like that, I think men just have a
slightly different chemical reaction within them that gives them a different
outlook, and it's not necessarily a positive outlook, but it's like the old analogy,
when a woman looks in the mirror, she sees something more negative than
what is physically represented in the mirror. She sees wrinkles, fat, gray hair,
wrong shape, that her boobs aren't big enough or her thighs are too big,
whatever it is. Men on the other hand, they look in the mirror and they often
see something better than what is physically represented in the mirror. We see
ourselves looking stronger and slimmer than what is actually there, and it's
Michelle laughs most evenings actually when she sees me standing in the front
of the mirror brushing my teeth. I try to hold in my stomach to make myself look
20 years younger, which is hilarious really, when you think about it, because
there's only me and her there, and trust me, she's seen me in my moments, and it's rarely pretty, but it's all about this perspective we
have. It's all about the way we see each other, and I think there is a rising tide
amongst women in the world who are still dealing with the residual leftovers of
the patriarchal society that they were raised in, particularly a heavily misogynistic society that has forever tried to control women and put women in
their place and say, "No."
What was it? It was only 30 or 40 years ago that women got a right to vote. In
Australia, I was listening to this article the other day, even as late as the '80s,
the metrics for divorce in the world were very, very different, where men could
have multiple affairs and the woman still not have a right to divorce, whereas a
woman had one affair and the men would have the right for the divorce. In fact,
even here, there were politicians here that were still trying to reactivate that
law, get that law passed again, even a decade ago. That sort of stuff to me just
blows my mind, that people could even think that way, but of course, in some
countries, we're having, humans are having such a difficult time even letting
women drive. Some countries, women don't have a right to vote. Some
countries in fact, women don't even have a right to choose how they dress.
I'm not pointing the finger at any particular belief system. As I said, I honor and
respect everybody's different beliefs, everybody has a right to believe what they
choose, but for me, what I'm noticing is there is a real rising tide of women who
have in their own very, very beautiful way dedicated their lives to their families,
dedicated their lives to their partners, and they get to a certain age, like you just
mentioned, and you just sort of say, "You know what? This is no longer really
working for me anymore. I deserve to have a bit of a life. In fact, I've got a right
to be able to choose how I want to live my life." And I'm here to fully support
that, absolutely, because I believe not only do they have a right, I think it's their
birthright to be able to choose how they want to live their life, and everybody
has that birthright, both male and female.
It's just I think women are reaching out more and saying, "You know what? I'd
really like some help with this because I want to accelerate this. I don't want to
take 10 years to figure this out. I want to figure this out almost in an instant,"
and that's where people like myself come into the picture because in different
ways, for me, it's all about connecting people back to their mind, their body, and
their spirit. I work everything in a holistic approach because I believe it's
necessary, because if you ignore any one of those parts, you're in fact not going
to get the full life-changing result that you want, but whether someone would
work with me or with someone else, all I say to them is that I honestly hope that
they at least make the decision to take action on the change that they desire. It
doesn't matter how they take action on that change. It doesn't matter who they
get to help them with, but the fact that if they desire change, that they at least
take action on that.
I believe in the very, very first instance, and it's completely free, it's available to
everybody, everybody has to charge you money for it, in the very first instance,
the first thing you can do for yourself is start analyzing within you what aspects,
what experiences, what choices, what thoughts and feelings are you making
that are based on fear, and which thoughts, feelings, and choices are you
making based on love? Because that thought in itself, that choice, that decision right there changes absolutely everything, and that's available to everyone in an

Patricia Morris: Oh, yes, it is. I love that you said that because what was coming to my mind is if
we take that example we talked about earlier, if you're running late and you get
into the car and you're stressed out, basically what's going to happen is cause a
huge chain reaction of events that are going to occur, not only are you going to
arrive to your destination stressed out, but you're not going to be fully focused
when you get there because you're still just kind of in a state of panic and
anxiety and all these things because you were stressing out the entire time on
your drive there that you weren't going to get there on time, and so that can
come out in many, many ways, so for instance, let's say it's a business meeting
of some sort.
Well, your mind is not going to be as sharp as it could've been, so you're not
going to be able to focus as much, or you may be a little short with somebody
because you're still a little anxious and upset for whatever reason on your drive,
so it just starts this huge chain reaction, this huge ripple effect because if you're
being short with someone, they're sensing that, then they're going to get upset,
and then they're passing that energy on, so it's just a huge chain reaction where
if we can go back in time and reevaluate that situation, let's say I'm in the car
now, and I am running late, but I think, "You know what? There's no point in
stressing about it. It is what it is. I'm going to arrive late. I might as well just
enjoy the ride. I might as well just listen to some good tunes, and when I arrive
there, I arrive there," and so when I do arrive there, my mind is now clear for
that business meeting. I'm not being short with my tone of voice.
I'm able to focus, so therefore, it's like starting a whole different chain reaction
of positive events rather than starting a whole negative chain reaction of
negative events, so I know at least for me, that was huge. I never realized, I
don't know why it never clicked in my head before, before I awoke to all of this,
a lot of us aren't really trained to see how our choices in how we choose to
process these things that come up in life, whether it's based on love or fear, we
never are trained to see how that actually plays out and how it plays out in such
an exponential way, and such a huge way, and in such a way that it has that
ripple effect throughout the universe. It really does. So I just wanted to put that
out there just because I think before you awaken to all this, you don't realize
any of this. You just don't.

Andrew Hackett: That's right. Absolutely. That's exactly right. The way I look at it is that every
choice we make has a consequence. It's a universal law. There's nothing we can
do to avoid that. That is fact. The consequence is either good or bad or
impartial, so the reaction from the universe is either good, bad, or impartial.
What I think a lot of people also don't realize is the consequence is directly
influenced and related to the choice we make, so if we make that choice based
on a love-based construct, the consequence is constructed of love also. So if we
want to help someone, for instance, we want to help someone find happiness, find joy in their heart, we want to help an old lady cross the road, to use an old
analogy, the consequence of that choice is also based on the energy that we
gave it in the first instance.
If we want to choose fear, if we want to judge people, attack people, run around
and get angry at people and yell and scream at people, what do you think the
consequence is going to be? Of course it's going to be based on fear, and if
you're lucky, someone doesn't come and thump you for being such a fool and
for being aggressive and yelling at people, ultimately speaking, the universe is
probably going to come back and provide a bit of a negative experience for you.
This is what the whole karma thing is all about. A lot of people think karma is
just a big stick of judgment that comes and smacks us across the bum when we
are doing something wrong.

Patricia Morris: That, or past life stuff that, yeah, all that stuff, right.
Andrew Hackett: That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So I'm here to say karma is both the
good and the bad. When you do something good, the universe reflects good.
When you do something that's bad, so to speak, or not a great choice, the
universe is just going to reflect that back to you. This is why I talk about a leader
isn't the person that stands up at front and tells everyone what to do. The
leader is the one that creates the most leaders, and if we are wanting to grow
people and develop people and mentor people and shape people and help
people find success and abundance and joy in their lives, what do you think the
response is going to be from the universe? Of course it is going to be positive.
The universe is going to reflect back to you what you're putting out. The whole
do unto others thing, this is what this whole love and fear dichotomy is all
about. We have a choice.
That choice arises in every moment, no matter what moment it is. There was an
instance where I owned a farm once upon a time. It's mentioned in my book,
the purchasing and what happened with me at the farm, and there was a
particular instance where I'd realized before I sold the farm that one of the
fence lines on the farm was way out of where it should've been. I had a surveyor
come around to the property. It's a fairly normal thing, and I wanted to make
sure that the legacy I was leaving behind, what I was leaving behind was not a
set of problems for the new owners, effectively.
I realized that one fence line had to be moved some three or four meters, and it
was quite a long fence line. It was a few hundred meters of fence line, and it had
to be moved three or four meters, and partly I wanted to do it so I could plant a
row of trees and all this sort of stuff, but I wanted to get it right so that the next
owners would get something with all of the small little issues cleaned up.
Now, the neighbor that I had at the time, we weren't necessarily on great terms,
but we weren't necessarily on bad terms either, but just the simple discussion of
me wanting to point out to him, "Listen, mate, I need to move the fence. I'm happy to pay for it. I'm not asking you to pay for any of it," because in Australia,
if you have a fence between two people, the cost of that fence gets split
between the two people, but I said, "Look, I'm not asking you to pay for it. I'll
pay for it all. I just wanted to let you know that this is what I'm going to do and
these are the reasons for it," and all that sort of stuff.
Anyway, that sent that person off into quite an almighty rage. Yelling and
screaming, frothing at the mouth, really losing it, going completely purple in the
face, and this went on for quite some time, and I was there with Michelle,
standing between this gentleman and Michelle, because I wasn't too sure
exactly what was going to happen, but I knew when I started out that discussion
that I was going to stay calm and I was going to choose love and I was going to
choose passion. I must have perhaps intuitively known that it was going to
trigger this gentleman and get the reaction that he had, and at one point, even
Michelle was very, very scared at one point, thinking that either herself or
probably more importantly me, because I was standing in the way, I was going
to get hit or attacked, quite violently.
Anyway, I said, "No, I've got to stand my ground. I've just got to take
compassion's view." I listened to him. I acknowledged what was going on, and
said, "Look, I see what's happening for you," but on the same token, I was going
to backtrack. I wasn't going to say, "No, I can't do this." The reason for me doing
it was sound, legally enforceable, supported by evidence, all this sort of stuff. It
wasn't necessarily something that I needed to retract from, however, I could
always present it, do it, and handle that matter with a choice of love, and once
he'd gotten everything out of his system and noticing the fact that I wasn't
reacting in any way, I wasn't firing up, because he wanted me to fire up because
his ego was angry and he had fear and everything running through him, and
anger wants anger as a response, he realized I wasn't firing back and then
eventually started to come down, and got frustrated, got a little bit
embarrassed, started to see a little bit of shame and guilt about how he reacted,
and he wandered off.
I thought, "Okay. I'm just going to leave that there for now. There's no point
pushing for a response, no point in pushing for an answer or anything like that.
I've got a fair idea of where he stands on the subject." So I went back home, and
Michelle and I wandered back home, and I sat quietly for a little while, and I
went through the whole Ho'oponopono process of forgiveness, effectively, and I
talk about this in my book, Free From Fear, as well, where I talk about, it's a
four-phrase chant. It says, "I love you. Please forgive me. I'm sorry. Thank you. I
love you. Please forgive me. I'm sorry. Thank you." And you say it over and over
and over again while you think about the person or the event that you want

Patricia Morris: Oh, yeah. That's the Ho'oponopono. I know I just butchered the way it's said

Andrew Hackett: That's okay.
Patricia Morris: It's the Hawaiian-
Andrew Hackett: Us Australians, we butcher everything. That's right. That's right. It's the-
Patricia Morris: We Americans do the same, so-
Andrew Hackett: Yeah. That's right. It's the Hawaiian technique. That's right. The ancient

Hawaiian technique.
Patricia Morris: Yes. It's beautiful.
Andrew Hackett: It is lovely and it's so powerful. It is so unbelievably powerful, and I've used it time and time again, and quite literally within 30 minutes of this man, he's a
good man, but he just completely lost control of all, call it mental faculties in
getting angry and yelling and screaming and threatening and all that sort of
stuff, within a half an hour of us finishing that discussion, me coming back and
doing the Ho'oponopono, he literally turned up to my doorstep with a tear in his
eye apologizing, sincerely apologizing, and just saying he was really sorry for the
way he acted, that what happened, and all this sort of stuff, and I just sat back
and I thought, "If I had in any way allowed fear or my ego to get in the way, we
would never have ever gotten to that end result, ever."
Again, it came down to a choice. I chose love, and for me, the easiest way to do
that is to ask yourself a question, and the question is, what would love do?
What would love do in that situation? Love wouldn't get angry. Love wouldn't
judge him for being where he's at and how he's responding and reacting. Love
would offer love back. Love would be compassionate. Love would listen, and
love wouldn't react, and to me, that was such a shining example of that,
because in exactly the same way, and I'm not the first one to say this and to
make this stuff up either, this has been talked about for millennia, ancient
philosophers and modern philosophers have been talking about it on and off.
Patricia Morris: Oh, yeah. The most prominent one you can think of is Jesus. Jesus taught the same principle. Right.

Andrew Hackett: Absolutely. Buddha was the same. Krishna, too. They were all talking about the same thing, and it was all about choosing love in every given moment, what
would love do? I know Christians, they ask themselves the question, what would
Jesus do? Because they know, and it's exactly the same question, what would
love do, what would Jesus do? And ultimately speaking, that's what we can do.
You don't have to believe in God. You don't have to be Christian. You can be of
any denomination you want, but you can just ask, what would love do in this
circumstance, and love would be nonjudgmental, love would be forever
forgiving, love would be generous and kind and compassionate and all those
wonderful things, and the beautiful this is not only does it resolve it within them, what's going on for them, it quiets them down because darkness can't
survive the presence of light.
It also resolves it within yourself, and in turn the universe then responds back in
kind, amplified, constructs of love that you've chosen to put out into the
universe, and to me, that changes everything. To me, if I can get that message
out to the world, and I can get the world thinking along those lines, and I can get
people just asking themselves that question, what would love do, honestly, war
has no place anymore. Corruption, greed doesn't have any place anymore.
Racism, sexism, misogynism doesn't have any place anymore.

Patricia Morris: It all boils down to the phrase that you mentioned earlier, do unto others. That is the classic, centuries-old phrase. Do unto others as you would have done to
you. It's the same principle, just different way of saying it.

Andrew Hackett: Yeah. That's exactly right, and I'm not anybody judging anybody. If someone
wants to create a life, if someone actually physically is thinking about it
consciously and they want to create a life that is not constructed of love, that's
their choice. That's completely their choice. I would suggest that to be able to
make that choice, you can't really be truly conscious, because if you were truly
conscious, you could only choose love because that's what we're made up of,
that's what we came here to do and experience and understand, but some
people unconsciously help us along our journey through choices based on fear,
that trigger things within us to help us ultimately get back on the path we're
supposed to get on, and ultimately, I think through that choice, we start to
realize and we start to wake up to what's going on around us, and we start to
realize that love is in fact actually the more powerful of the two forces.

Patricia Morris: Yes. Yep. I agree with that for sure.
Andrew Hackett: Does that answer your question, the love and fear dichotomy, why is it

important and why should we be thinking about all of that?

Patricia Morris: It does, it does, and I think the listeners probably would feel the same. I know
when you're first starting on this path, you kind of can get lost in some of it.
There's just so much to know, there's so much information out there, but if we
drill it down like we did, where it basically just comes down to what's been said
for centuries, it's easier to understand in that way, I think.

Andrew Hackett: Fabulous. Fabulous. Thank you so much, Patricia. I really love talking about love
and fear this week. To me, again, that is the core of everything that I do. That is
everything in life, and everything we experience broken down into a very, very
simple choice, the choice of either love or fear, and I really appreciate you being
here and talking to me about this. It's an honor to have you here as well, and I
really look forward to us talking again next week, and exploring more matters of
the heart, the universe, and ultimately love.

Patricia Morris: Yes. Thank you. It's definitely an honor and a pleasure on my end as well, so

thank you, thank you, thank you.

Andrew Hackett: You're very welcome. Now, for anybody who's really enjoying these podcasts,
please don't forget to subscribe. If you want to know more about me and my
work, you can always go to and have a bit of a surf
around and find out what's going on, and the latest and greatest about what's
being offered, as well. I thank you very much for your time, and I hope you have
a super fabulous day.